Autoloader vs revolver..again

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hornetguy

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I REALLY like my mod 64 Smith, and was thinking about the whole auto vs revolver thing..

I have a Canik TP9 SA also, so I did a short comparison..
Fully loaded (17 rounds, 147 gr hp) the Canik actually weighs 3 oz less than my Mod 64 fully loaded with 125 gr loads.

The Smith at its widest point is 1.45 inches, and the Canik is 1.275 inches.

The Smith is a 4" barrel, and the Canik is 4.7"...

With the grips side by side, the Smith barrel is 2" longer than the Canik.

So, it seems that, apples to apples, the auto gives three times the firepower in a slightly more compact package. One more mag for the auto vs 5 speedloaders for the revolver.

This, of course doesn't take aesthetics into account..

I didn't even try to compare my PT 111 with 11 rounds in a mag and a 3.2" barrel..

It appears that for "firepower" the autos win, easily..
 
I don't believe anyone chooses revolvers for "firepower", whatever practical benefit that may accrue.
Revolvers don't require practice of tap & rack drills; they don't have magazine problems; their safety checks are intuitive; they tend to be more accurate; they can accommodate more powerful rounds; they can also accommodate a variety of ammunition of variable power choices, e.g. 38 wadcutter/38 spcl/38 spcl +P/357 mag, 44 spcl/44 mag without any problems.
 
I am unsure what you are trying to compare.

All Revolvers vs all Autos? or just your particular models?

Stating that a 4 inch Model 64 is at a disadvantage because it has a longer barrel than another semi-auto doesn't quite seem right to me. You could have purchased a model 64 with a 2 inch barrel and then revolvers would be looked upon favorably in that category.

For firepower / capacity I will agree that in general semi-autos are capable of holding more ammunition in the case of a double stack magazine. Single stack - not quite as impressive in this day and age but folks were probably thrilled with the easy mag changes.

I have a Kahr CM9 that holds 6 in a mag. I also have a M&P340 (12 ounces?) that holds 5 rounds of 357 mag. I like them both.

For the sake of discussion:
1- despite the advancement in capacity for semi-autos, it is easier to accommodate (and therefore find for sale) large bore calibers in a revolver than handgun. 44 mag revolvers are common. Not so much in semi-autos.
2 - light weight semi-autos with very short barrels are more sensitive to limp-wristing and reliability becomes more finicky. Recoil springs are typically stronger making racking a little harder. Similarly, most small revolvers have a stiff trigger pull due to a short spring that must do the same work as a longer spring in a larger revolver. No limp-wristing issues in a revolver.
3 - every action type has its pros and cons and failure types.

There are some interesting revolvers that try to push the envelope.
Thunder ranch revolver - 6 rounds 45 ACP
S&W 929 - 8 rds 9mm
NAA mini - 5 rds 22 LR...4.5 oz
The judges/Governor
 
Many semi-auto's hold more rds....but so what ? ( personally, I would never carry a double stack semi-auto anyway....)....

It's Defense ...not the gunfight at the OK Corral...

But I did buy a nice pair of S&W model 627 performance center model N frame revolvers a few months ago - a 2 5/8" and a 5" ....they're both 8 shot .357 magnums....and I did carry the 2 5/8" one day last week in a new leather IWB holster I ordered for it a couple of months ago - and it felt good / left my 5" 1911 home that day....and I didn't feel under-gunned. ..:D
 
8 rounds, moon clips make for quick reloads. A tad thicker than my 1911, but a tad smaller footprint. Kinda hard to conceal in my speedo's.

2136580f-1bfe-4f84-aa73-5c053796f633_zpszqotr9h0.jpg
 
All Revolvers vs all Autos? or just your particular models?
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My particular models.
Two handguns of equivalent calibers, and how they compare in size and firepower.

I am aware of revolvers shooting larger calibers and different bullet styles, but in the power arena of the 38 special, these two are pretty representative. I could have substituted a Glock 17 for the Canik.. same size, same caliber.

Or I could have used any number of similarly sized 38 special revolvers...

I just think that these two are representative of the BEST qualities of the two types of handguns.
 
It's Defense ...not the gunfight at the OK Corral...
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So, are you saying that we should prepare only for ONE assailant at any given time? In that case, a two shot derringer should be sufficient.

I'd rather try to be prepared for "worst-case" situations, within the limitations of concealability.

There are too many stories of gangs of thugs attacking folks, and multiple assailant break-ins to think that more than one attacker is not a likelihood.

Obviously an HK sub-gun would be better than a 38 special, but I am looking at what most normal folks will have at hand.
 
Stating that a 4 inch Model 64 is at a disadvantage because it has a longer barrel than another semi-auto doesn't quite seem right to me. You could have purchased a model 64 with a 2 inch barrel and then revolvers would be looked upon favorably in that category.
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I wasn't saying that the revolver was at a disadvantage, necessarily... it is just a 2" longer "package" than the auto, even though the auto's barrel is almost 3/4" longer.
 
8 rounds, moon clips make for quick reloads. A tad thicker than my 1911, but a tad smaller footprint. Kinda hard to conceal in my speedo's.
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Is that a 357 you're packing, or are you just glad to see me? :eek:

I'm not sure Speedos are adequate for concealing ANY kind of "gun"... :D
 
So, it seems that, apples to apples, the auto gives three times the firepower in a slightly more compact package.
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Except, you aren't comparing apples to apples.

I'm not sure its even a valid fruit to fruit comparison.

might be more like apple vs McDonald's hamburger. You can eat both but other than that, they have little in common.

The 4" DA revolver has been around a LONG time, essentially unchanged. It worked then, it will work the same now. Is it a fair match for a modern hi cap 9mm? No, not on a point for point comparison, both have their strong and weak points.

Some folks prefer one, some the other. We've been ..discussing.. which was better since the semi auto was invented.

Suppose we replace your Canik or GLock with Bolo Model (4"barrel) Mauser C96? One chambered in 9mm Luger. Holds 10! Double stack magazine! Auto still wins the capacity contest. but is the rest of it superior to your S&W .38??

Apples to apples??
Not so much, I think.
 
A few points...

- Not everyone can legally own a 17 shot magazine

- Smaller revolvers are still one of the best tools for backing up larger automatic pistols. They are not obsolete in this role. A J-frame revolver would compliment your auto very well.

- Medium and large frame revolvers makes sense as a primary in animal defense or backing up a hunting rifle.

- They're also incredibly fun to shoot, not everything has to have a practical use, after all, or "revolve" around combat/tactical shooting.

As much as I like the K-frame, it's hard for me to find a niche for the once popular medium sized .38 Special, like a Model 64. The same sized revolver has been available in .357 magnum for a long time...really like the updates on the new Model 66-8, for instance.
 
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The shortcoming of the revolver is a lack of ammunition capacity compared to a comparable auto.

And it's a well known fact that street thugs, home invaders will keep coming at you no matter how many you shoot with a revolver while an auto will give you the edge to dispatch all of them with a reload and odds against you are 12 to one. :p
 
Uncle Ed "And it's a well known fact that street thugs, home invaders will keep coming at you no matter how many you shoot with a revolver while an auto will give you the edge to dispatch all of them with a reload and odds against you are 12 to one. :p"

+1 Also, I've heard that the really professional thugs keep bobbing and weaving as they count your shots and only make their final rush after they've counted to 6;) Actually, I guess being able to count to 6 is what makes them professional.
 
FITASC,

A "well known fact" needs no proof because it is a well known fact.

See Springer99's additional explanation which further proves what a well known fact it really is, although no proof is necessary.
 
I like this comparison because I have done it pretty close.

A Glock G29 VS Ruger SP101 (3" .357).

I have both of these firearms and they both fit the same purpose. They are my "large" concealed carry pistol and as my woods gun.

In the end the Glock is easier to shoot well (for me), carries more ammo, and is easier to reload. With full power rounds both firearms have very similar energy with an edge going to the SP101 for its ability to shoot full cast ammo with manufacture approval.

But... The Ruger is on the list of guns I have no plan of ever selling. I really do enjoy it.
 
I carried a revolver in LE (Model 28) and if I was ever to get into LE again, a revolver would be my choice. However I was a cop in Alaska and the 357 was necessary as we dealt with large animals. If I was a cop I'd probably stick with the 38s.

The Model 64 was mentioned. I shoot my mode 64 more then just about and other gun I have. In ICORE and other such matches.

Yeah autos have more "fire power" and I use them in some USPSA matches, and its hard to beat the heavy bullets of the 1911 for bowling pins. But for SD I'll stick with revolvers. I see no scenario where in my old age I'll be getting into extended fire fights.

I carry per the LEOSA and I'm required to qualify once a year. When I qualify there normally is a group of retirees qualifying at the same time.

I'm the only one who shoots a revolver. That being my M-64. The qualification doesn't require a lot of ammo so the revolver isn't at a disadvantage and the last 4 years, I was the top shooter. After the scores are recorded I cant help commenting "real cops carry revolvers".

Last year they had a young lady in LE Fire Arms Instructor in training running the show. When I made my comment "real cops carry revolvers" She replied "real old cops". She got me there, as I'm normally the oldest on the line.

But that doesn't mean I'm giving up my Pistols, I like them all. Different tools for different purposes.
 
FITASC,

A "well known fact" needs no proof because it is a well known fact.

See Springer99's additional explanation which further proves what a well known fact it really is, although no proof is necessary.
Click to expand...

Proof makes it fact. The fact that you can't provide any makes my point. Internet "fact" and provable real-world "fact" tend to be two different animals.
 
My apologies to those who have had to read this before, but since the subject came up again:

I changed from a S&W 642 to a Glock 26 a few years ago because of capacity. My reasoning was that, since handgun rounds are never assumed to give you a one-shot stop, I need to plan to get at least two rounds on target. LEOs get good hits with 20% to 40% of their rounds, depending on which study you read. My 5-shot revolver, then, required me to shoot toward the high end of accuracy just to get a reasonable chance of stopping a single assailant. If I shot with less accuracy or had an assailant that needed a third round on target to be convinced, or was confronted by more than one assailant, I was in deep water.

I know the 64 is a six-shot revolver, but the math isn't drastically different. I love revolvers - handsome, lots of character, fun to shoot - but I carry a semi.

Do what makes you happy. I hope none of us ever need either of them for anything but target practice, anyway.
 
"...too many stories of gangs of thugs attacking folks..." Where? If you're frequenting places with gangs of thugs roaming around, perhaps you should stay away from said places. The chances of you encountering one of these gangs of thugs, anywhere, are decidedly slim anyway.
If you ever get involved with your gangs of thugs and only have a handgun, you've made a serious tactical error too.
In any case, the whole auto vs revolver thing is invented. Likely by the gun rag writer's union. There really is no auto vs revolver thing. Carry what you can shoot best.
"...tools for backing up larger automatic pistols..." Best tool for that is more training/practice and another mag. How many firearms do you intend carrying? Two different firearms creates a logistics issue. And your pants will fall down from the weight.
 
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