Australian Gun Laws

G'day. I have heard of cases where intruders have been shot as HD/SD in Aus. From memory the defender has not suffered greatly from prosecution assuming storage and licencing was in order.
HD/SD is not grounds for ownership, but that does not mean you can't use all tools at your disposal.
 
With having to pull the weapon from an approved safe? What sort of safes are required? Easy access or good strategic planning on the part of the firearm owner?
 
Ben, my friend in the U.S. is not a gun owner and has no interest in firearms. He is somewhat troubled by the perception that if you 'look at someone the wrong way' or upset a stranger especially when driving, you're liable to be confronted by a person producing a handgun and maybe using it.

Because of our super-tight handgun rules in Australia that's not a common perception here. Which of course doesn't save you from facing physical violence here especially if you're at a night-spot like a pub or nightclub. Alcohol fuelled violence is becoming ever more prevalent in Oz society. We have a drinking culture here.

Other cultural differences are a perceived different work ethic and workplace culture between what my mate views as the Australian attitude and the U.S. one, and the strong social impacts of different racial attitudes and groups. Going into the details, reasons and aspects would just about fill a book. And we suffer from a similar dose of political correctness as you guys so I have to be careful what I say.

Our Aboriginals don't have the same sort of presence in the big cities as African Americans. Maybe more like Native Americans perhaps??

Something I find intriguing is how (according to my friend) the residents in the housing estate he lives in are pressured to keep their property neat and tidy according to a set standard. He doesn't live in a high value estate but he better not let his lawn get too long. Not such a bad idea really, given here in West Oz you can just about get away with cultivating a jungle before local councils jump on your case. Your house is regarded as your castle here...until the Government wants the land for some other purpose. It can be compulsorily reclaimed, with compensation paid at a pretty low rate. Doesn't happen often but it does happen. You never really own your plot in Oz!

Interestingly, the States seems to have lower standards of housing and workmanship than that allowed here in major cities in West Oz. I don't see that as a bad thing, but housing costs are painfully high over here.

This one gave me a bit of a giggle. When my mate moved into the housing estate his family and he were invited to a barbecue. One of the guests asked him what church he went to. He's not a churchgoer and said so. He was looked at askance and the only reply a judgmental "Oh!"
Here in Oz we don't give a rats what church you go to or otherwise - except perhaps if it's a mosque. That would tweak some interest.

You have to remember the population of Oz is less now than the States had at the time of the Civil War. And the folks who migrated to America in such huge numbers were often financially barren, desperate old-worlders suddenly facing conditions of human conflict with other ethnic groups, Native Americans, cattle barons etc. The U.S. was founded in conflict, the need for firearms absolute. Ours wasn't.

Our culture and heirarchy hasn't been shaped by the relatively small convict kickstart so much as the English attitude that came with it. We always went on about egalitarianism here. But there's always been a fairly strong elitist 'us-and-them' culture hiding quietly behind it. And our big conflicts have been mostly fought in other lands.
 
Your friend, Ben, must live in a "good" neighborhood. The areas where it is necessary to be careful about "dissing" others with a look are pretty bad areas. Much of this is gang mentality. If I were living there I would very much want to have firearms protection.

Some ethnic neighborhoods where African Americans, Chinese, Vietnamese, legal Latino residents, East Indians or such fall to that level and some do not. Greatly influenced by economics.

In other areas African Americans and other ethnic groups are part of the professionals and even Yuppies where there is a pretty livable culture. Well, actually some of us... A lot of us think Yuppies are insufferable with their materialism and conformity, but they get equal disdain regardless of race or ethnic background.

I work in an area with a heavy African American population and a significant portion of Xerox's professional / executive workforce is black. Your friend could come here and feel quite comfortable at the workplace or suburbs. They even have the leftist fear of firearms. I nearly gave one black sales manager a heart attack when I mentioned the web site "Black Man with a Gun".

Outside housing projects the local city governments may regulate tidiness to keep up neighborhood image, economic desirability and safety. In most areas of suburban California housing is developed in tracts of homes by a single company. The people who purchase these homes often must accept dictates of a Home Owners Association and they can get downright pi@@y about what color the house can be painted, how often, etc. Rural areas usually are more individualistic.

I agree about the Pommey heritage playing a larger part than the convict society. Likewise the fact that the United States came about due to conflict.

The former colonies that evolved without conflict into independent (sort of) countries seem to have retained the Brit mindset. That would be other than people like my wife who often makes comments about "Shtupid pommeys" (Aussie pronunciation) and "Worthless royals--ought to dump that lot".

The United States was a dumping ground for political dissidents more than convicts (except for Georgia) and that probably makes the difference. Our Bill of Rights (civil rights) come directly as a repudiation of British practices at the time or distrust of control from the top. Firearms ownership protection comes from both.
 
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Actually, they have no right to be on or at the range unless called by someone, as the range belongs to the SSAA and is therefore private property


This is not true police have the right to enter any private property!
I have seen them there a number of times doing random checks.
If you are the only one shooting at the range and your guns are left unattended while your checking your target and they show up they can take at their discretion your fire arms on the spot!

If your lucky you’ll get a warning if they take them this then becomes a matter for the court's,
99% of the time you get them back but the hassle and cost is BS.
Our club members have been warned about this and the club has provided a steel cabinet that you must put your fire arm into before going forward.
 
As one who dwells in both camps, so to speak.....

Hello Foxrr,

He is somewhat troubled by the perception that if you 'look at someone the wrong way' or upset a stranger especially when driving, you're liable to be confronted by a person producing a handgun and maybe using it.

As Guy noted, this perception would only be valid in certain inner-city areas and some towns with a heavy gang presence. More importantly, cases of unjustified use of a firearm by a CCW licence holder are very rare. Any person threatening to shoot you over a 'look' is likely not legally carrying the gun. During my three months in Arizona last year, I found folks to be exceedingly polite. A bit of a shock after urban Australia!

Because of our super-tight handgun rules in Australia that's not a common perception here. Which of course doesn't save you from facing physical violence here especially if you're at a night-spot like a pub or nightclub. Alcohol fuelled violence is becoming ever more prevalent in Oz society. We have a drinking culture here.

You ought to travel around in Western Sydney a bit! There's quite a bit of gang activity and gunplay there, at least by Australian standards. Australia overall has a higher violent crime rate (excluding homicide) than the U.S.A. - certainly Australia's alcohol culture here plays a part in that.

Our Aboriginals don't have the same sort of presence in the big cities as African Americans. Maybe more like Native Americans perhaps??

Having lived in Alice Springs for five years, I'd say your comparison is generally valid. Both cultures suffer tremendous substance abuse problems and perhaps a similar difficulty in assimilating into modern society. While I was peacefully panhandled by a Navajo in the parking lot of the Flagstaff Mall, I have been "stood over" by groups of Aborigines on Hartley St. in Alice Springs. I had a revolver in my pocket at Flagstaff - perhaps the awareness of that possibility in the mind of the Navajo guy contributed to the politeness of the panhandling?

Your house is regarded as your castle here...until the Government wants the land for some other purpose. It can be compulsorily reclaimed, with compensation paid at a pretty low rate. Doesn't happen often but it does happen. You never really own your plot in Oz!

Here in the ACT, you never "own" your plot of land. When you buy a home, the land it sits upon is a perpetual lease fron the ACT government and they may resume it with compensation.

Interestingly, the States seems to have lower standards of housing and workmanship than that allowed here in major cities in West Oz. I don't see that as a bad thing, but housing costs are painfully high over here.

In my observation, much of U.S. housing is of quite high standard when compared to Australia, especially with regard to insulation and heating/cooling. My daughter just purchased a near new four bedroom two-bath home outside Atlanta for USD$150,000. Granted this is a bargain time for housing in parts of the U.S. but that amount converted to AUD$ would not even buy a hovel here in Canberra. Australia suffers from a chronic shortage of housing in the cities due to a combination of lack of incentive for builders to build, ridiculously restrictive state and council land-release policies, and continuing immigration demand.

...Here in Oz we don't give a rats what church you go to or otherwise - except perhaps if it's a mosque. That would tweak some interest.

Isn't that the truth! Americans have their church, Aussies their pub!:)

Our culture and heirarchy hasn't been shaped by the relatively small convict kickstart so much as the English attitude that came with it. We always went on about egalitarianism here. But there's always been a fairly strong elitist 'us-and-them' culture hiding quietly behind it. And our big conflicts have been mostly fought in other lands.

While only a thousand or so convicts landed in 1788, transportation went on for over half a century, leading to a strong social divide in Australian society between the convicts, "ticket of leave" folks and the free settlers. There was a further divide between settlers 'with means' and those brought out to work the estates and business of the former. I find it notable that while Woodrow Wilson imposed conscription upon the U.S. during WWI, the Australians TWICE voted it down. Aussies may have gone off to fight for "King and Country", but they went voluntarily!
 
hardhit,

We need shooters alert to things that will affect our image.

fallingblock,

I've only been to Tattersall's where everyone seemed well mannered and maybe a bit stiff, but my wife is Aussie if nothing and her brother has run a couple of "hotels"--rooms upstairs and pub below.

I would very much like to visit Oz again before too many of the interesting in-laws have passed on (and get another kiss from one of your former premier fashion models/buddy of my wife :cool: ).

If we are to visit again how would I hook up with shooting clubs and get permission to shoot? When my wife's nephew was here I took him to the range and he enjoyed himself and doing it at home might be a kick. How is firearms transportation handled?
 
Australia needs more Yanks!

On my way to cover for making that statement:eek:

Guy, most Aussie pubs ("hotels" also, due to liquor licencing requirements)
are fine places to relax.

I couldn't resist the "quarrelsome lot" remark.:)

I would very much like to visit Oz again before too many of the interesting in-laws have passed on (and get another kiss from one of your former premier fashion models/buddy of my wife ).

There's plenty of incentive! Fares are good at the moment 'cause many airlines are struggling to stay in business and paradoxically offering bargains. I wouldn't book too far in advance.

If we are to visit again how would I hook up with shooting clubs and get permission to shoot?

There are SSAA (Sporting Shooters Association of Australia) branches in every state and territory. Their contact details are available on the SSAA national website: http://www.ssaa.org.au/ under "State offices".

The individual state regulations vary. Generally it's much easier to arrange to use a rifle or shotgun than a handgun. In most clubs there are "club guns" of one sort or another available for guest shooters. Depending on the state, one may need to arrange in advance for permission to shoot. Generally speaking, it seems a lot harder to accomplish than it actually is.

How is firearms transportation handled?

If you mean bringing one into Australia from another nation,
the best thing to do is start reading up at Customs and then email them for clarification:

http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/ImportingCatA-BFirearms.pdf

If you just want to do some shooting locally, getting in touch with a club and arranging for an 'open day' would be an easier option than bringing a firearm with you.

It's a great country and the people are generally warm and friendly.
The politicians are about what one can expect anywhere.:barf:
 
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If we were to visit again how would I hook up with shooting clubs and get permission to shoot

I can only give you info on the club im with, which is a 300-mtere range, and you are welcome there on any day of the week.
You are allowed a day past but @ $30 dollars honestly it’s a little on the expensive side being a member is the way to go @ $220 per year you can shoot every day if you want to.
They shoot shotgun pistol & black powder but there is a few heralds to jump before you become a member.
How is firearms transportation handled?

If talking about traveling to the range fire arm’s should be bagged and if possible left in the boot or covered from view at the range no uncovered fire arm in the car park until you are at your shooting bench and no handling of fire arm when people are forward
If you need go to the police station don’t leave the bolt in the gun, I have herd of people getting reamed by the cops for that.
 
G'day fellas'
Just to clarify..Ben is a previous poster I was answering, not my mate's name. Can't work out how to get 'quotes' up on my replies. My reply page seems to be missing a button or two. I'll have to message the Mods. The fact I'm not hugely computer lit doesn't help.

F/block, I'm with you on your observations. A lot of fellas I know if not drinking at a pub are putting away a few most nights in the 'castle'. For health reasons I can only do a rare rum or two these days. Oz-made Beenleigh rum is the BEST!

Aussies have gone off to fight others' wars since early times. It's not our argumentative streak so much as the small-nation-folks' need to prove how tough we are. And we mostly have I suppose. NZ has the same problem in spades. But it hurts. Our losses in the Great War were appalling. Some say it's bl**dy stupid. I'm not so sure. Sometimes is.

Your comment about the Navajo kind of proves the point. When the other guy suspects you're carrying, he's much more likely to be wary and mind his manners.

Your comments about good manners figures with what my mate says, especially about the kids. Invade Oz, will you? And sort out some of the lousy attitudes and behaviour of quite a lot of our kids if you can. We've been doing something wrong over here. Fairy parenting, and lefty teachers, I'd say. Too many kids' rights, too few obligations.

And if you don't feel like invading, just come for a holiday. It ain't no Africa but it isn't half as bad as just about anywhere else in the world. I'm sure you can get it all sorted if you're determined to hunt or shoot paper. No big probs. Advice given so far is excellent.
 
I'm curious. I have read differing reports on the number of firearms that were turned in or registered after the regulation. Some studies have suggested that many Ozzies did not turn in their guns or register them, but just went underground, especially in the outback.

How much truth is there to this? Anybody know for sure?
 
G'day. I have been told by some people that they have buried firearms at various locations. I personally don't know where to find any, but would not be surprised if there was a large number.
 
I don't know about that one either. I do know that I was ropable about losing my lovely little Ruger 10/22 used to terrorise nothing but rabbits, but the buyback meant I lost about $20 on the value of the rifle. Could have been worse. Some blokes with very high value firearms actually made something of a killing when they handed them in.

Still, I swore I would never vote Liberal again while my rear pointed south! Haven't either.

The buyback was a huge farce. Because the Govt didn't want to upset shooters too much they then allowed licensed shooters to replace any lost firearm with an approved model, few questions asked. Since then, the number of firearms in the community has multiplied way over previous figures as the new laws have been argued and fiddled with by committees and lord knows who. It's cost the taxpayer more than it was worth except as a panacea, a placebo for the masses. Politics:barf:

Gun crime is still happening, mainly by the crim element who strangely haven't been bothering to license their equipment lately. And pollies are still saying how the buyback has been so effective reducing the number of guns in the community, and heap praise on ex-Prime Minister Howard for the circus. Spare me!
 
Little Johnny 'got' a lot of 'em....

I'm curious. I have read differing reports on the number of firearms that were turned in or registered after the regulation. Some studies have suggested that many Ozzies did not turn in their guns or register them, but just went underground, especially in the outback.

How much truth is there to this? Anybody know for sure?

But he certainly didn't get 'em ALL!:)

Based upon the import figures for Chinese SKS alone (one of those murderous, horrible semi-auto firearms now banned) the "buy back" netted less than half of the SKS imported.

A total of over 750,000 long guns and 68,000 handguns were confiscated from their legal owners in Little Johnny's hoplophobic orgy, but several states had not kept a complete registry before the event.

As a result, there's still a heap of unregistered firearms out there. Every state "Weapons Amnesty" surprises the police with what turns up.;)

Net result? The cost to the taxpayer was well over a billion AUD$ just for the pay out to legal owners and "lost business' compensation to dealers and importers. Winchester Australia soaked 'em 14 million for lost ammo sales.:

The ongoing cost to staff and operate the firearms branches and registrys for all of the states is several times that figure, and rising.:rolleyes:

SO! Is Australia any "safer" now?:confused:

Firearms-related deaths continue to decline at the same rate they have since 1982 (14 years BEFORE the "Tough new gun laws":barf:) The police spend their time going from owner to owner to inspect storage facilities and overseeing every single (legal) firearms transaction, while drug gangs import whatever they want through Australia's rather vast and porous borders.

John Howard achieved nothing but scratching his anti-gun itch and demonising a lot of good citizens in the process. This is what happens when we elect little men with strange ideas.
 
Howard's gun laws being as they are were helped by the failure of the "National Party" (part of the coalition) to stand up for the responsible people that they are supposed to represent, they also failed to stand up to
John Howard, this was aggrevated by the fact that the NP had several weak
links among their ranks. I have been told (by an NP staffer) that JH bluffed the NP by threatening to deny members a front bench position in government.
Ethnic and bikie gangs along with other criminals did not hand in their weapons, law abiding citizens are now paying the price for handing in their firearms.The so called do-gooders & politicans of Australia have a lot to answer for.
 
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