ATF visit over multiple purchase.

You guys who are calling this "Bs"....I understand why you would jump to such a conclusion but this is a true story. This actually did happen, ignore the "friend of a friend" thing, I 100% know that this in fact happened, just trying to keep the personal details anonymous. Here's how it happened. An agent called, stated that there was no need to speak to him, asked if he could meet up by the house, agreed. Two agents showed up and said the reason for their visit was that the FFL had to send out multi purchase form since he bought 2 handguns within a 5 day period. They said his age and lack of income (no idea how they found that out) are why they were there to do a follow up. They were cool overall but they questioned him, he talked for a bit, then reluctantly let them into his home. He showed them the guns he still had at his place, they asked a few more questions, wrote things down, gave out their card, then took off. It's been over a month and they haven't reached out to said person or done anything. He hasn't done anything illegal whatsoever. All I want to know is if it's likely that he still has anything to worry about in regards to future contact. This was the first visit they've ever had from any agency.

It's been over a month, is this whole scary episode likely over?
 
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The dealer gave BATFE the information, may have even reported it himself. The agents lied about the age/income thing to avoid implicating the dealer. No one has to do something wrong to be asked a few questions. BATFE hasn't done anything wrong here either. It's not like they owe your friend a call back to tell him what a good guy he is.

Sounds like your friend is a bit uptight over what seems to be nothing. "Scary episode" - seriously?

Knock knock.
Who's there?
ATF
ATF: "do you have these two guns"
Friend: "yes"
ATF: "can we see them"
Friend: "yes" [shows ATF 2 guns)
ATF: "thanks for cooperating"

No arrest. Nobody shot. No Gold Medal given for cooperation above and beyond the duty. Not even a punch line to this one, folks.;)
 
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Of course. That's the point through, he would rather not ever be contacted by them again in the future. Just wondering if the fact that such a time has elapsed without incident is a sign that he's in the clear and can simply go on with his life.

It's scary because two agents were asking a bunch of questions and writing things down.
 
I believe it because it happened to me.

Got a call one day at the office from the ATF saying they would like to discuss one of my clients and that they would be there in 5 minutes.

Two agents showed up wearing sidearms and interviewed each of the three partners separately for about a half hour each. We were cooperative and only spoke generally to them about the client. It was very interesting. Had nothing to do with us.

They came back later with a warrant and confiscated all the client's records. They gave us time to copy the records. We disengaged with the client that day.

I won't go into detail but it turned out to be a tax related issue. The initial inquiry was along the lines of money laundering and weapons trafficking.
 
Any time you purchase multiple guns within a specified time period it creates a red flag that will be investigated. They may or may not make a personal visit, but you will be investigated. This has been standard procedure for years. I once ordered 2 handguns from my FFL at the same time, this was 15 years ago. In could have legally taken possession of both at the same time, but my FFL advised me that it would be a lot less paperwork for both of us if I'd wait a while before picking up the 2nd one.

Withdrawing $10,000 or more from the bank or paying $10,000 or more in cash for anything will get you a visit from either the FBI or your State BI also. We had a local guy who wanted to show off how much money he had at a car dealership by paying $40,000 in cash for a car a couple of years ago. He regretted it a week later. That has been on the books since the 1980's
 
It's been over a month, is this whole scary episode likely over?
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I do not think your friend has much to worry about, based on what you said. But having a month go by is no indication one way or another. If building a case it could take much longer than that depending on what the focus of the case is.
 
Makes sense. Thank you all for the replies. Since he's done nothing wrong I don't think he has anything to worry about in regards to a case. Nothing they could possibly charge with, if they were going to do something it probably would have happened by now...i hope.
 
It certainly did happen. Merely seeking advice from those who are more experienced with this sort of thing. Nothing crazy happened, just questions and such. They were cool overall. They inspected the weapons he showed them. They wrote stuff down during the conversation. In the end, they shook hands and left. And they haven't been back since.

I understand the skepticism, but I hope you guys can understand this actually did happen. No reason for me to make it up. Just seeking advice.
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Lets assume it did happen. I would have wanted to see a valid warrant before they entered my property, and other than that I wouldn't talk to them without counsel and even then wouldn't talk to them-utilizing my rights under the 5th amendment. There's very few ways a directed visit is a positive.
 
Interesting. Is this something new? In 2006 my Father passed away. Spring of 2007 the Estate was settled and I inherited his guns. 3 handguns and four long guns. I had them shipped to a FFL dealer near me and picked them all up at the same time. On paper, it looked like I just bought 7 guns at one time. Never heard a peep from BATFE. I guess it's possible they called the FFL and he told them it was an inheritance and they dropped anything further.
 
Lookee here, it appears the ATF was illegally retaining and cataloging info on gun purchases like we've all been assured could never happen, and specifically as it pertains to "multiple purchaser" records...we're assured it's all been taken care of, and the agency's disobedience will not be tolerated...again (again).
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Old news for me. I knew first hand the BATF was keeping instant check info permanently, instead of deleting it after a period of time like they were supposed to. Long story short, I applied for a C&R FFL some time ago. There was a problem, so I called the BATF to straighten it out. (A convicted felon 100 miles away from me has the exact same name) The BATF was able to tell me the make and model of guns I had purchased for years. Of course people on this forum told me I was crazy. Well......
 
Sinatra Gunz1 said:
That's the point through, he would rather not ever be contacted by them again in the future.
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That's very easy -- don't buy multiple guns within one week. Even if he has multiple guns delivered to his FFL together, it's a simple matter (unless the FFL is a dick) to take one home, wait a week, and then go back for the other one. Done that way, the FFL doesn't have to fill out the extra report of a multiple firearm purchase.

Done this way, each firearm goes on a separate 4473, and 4473s stay at the FFL's place of business unless he retires or goes out of business. No separate report to the BATFE.
 
Let me guess, the two agents that were sent out to do the "interview" were in their 20's. The reason for the law requiring the reporting of multiple purchases is to provide training to BATFE newbies.
 
No, they were senior employees in their late 40's early 50's I would guess. One was a forensic auditor (accounting). They were quite serious.

It really did appear the client was laundering money. Large amounts of cash were flowing in and out of the business. Didn't help the owner was Middle Eastern and it was a few years after 9/11.
 
I was actually referring to the OP's scenario. The one you presented, TH, I would expect senior level agents - seems like a lot more going on there than a one-off straw purchase or low-level dealing in firearms.
 
The agents were both around their mid to late 30s probably. So about them writing stuff down...I guess that all goes into a file and they permanently keep a record of the two firearms purchased?
 
Living in a free state with a CCW avoids all that unpleasantry. You simply fill out the 4473 present DL, CCW and $$$; everybody's happy.

However, not having that luxury, it's still none of the BATFE's business without a warrant. By showing them the firearms in question, you have just abrogated your 4th amendment right to be secure in your person and papers.

Additionally you will also abrogate your 5th amendment right of protection from self incrimination (what if you misplaced one of the firearms in question). Or, what if you have children and one of them currently has one of the firearms in question and is not available.

What if you are married and you spouse happened to have one of the firearms in question and was out of town and unavailable.

Then there's a F2F sale where it's no ones business but the two of you.

These are but a few of the many possibilities in a free state.

And I'd probably ask something like...

"So how's the E Witholder investigation going regarding Fast and Foolish? How many firearms were involved and have they all been recovered?

I have helped as much as I can regarding your questions about me given the circumstances, but at this point, without a warrant, what difference does it make."

.
 
Sinatra Gunz1 said:
The agents were both around their mid to late 30s probably. So about them writing stuff down...I guess that all goes into a file and they permanently keep a record of the two firearms purchased?
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They don't have to write it down. The FFL already submitted the required report of multiple purchases, and you can probably be assured those forms remain in a BATFE database somewhere.
 
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