ATF: Reclassification of M855/SS109 ammo as armor-piercing

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44 AMP said:
Current law for rifle AP ammo bans sale, purchase, etc., but allows possession if you had it when the law was passed. Pulled bullets from this ammo (just the bullets) is allowed, and you can buy, sell, and trade them to your heart's content. But NOT loaded ammo.

Current law for AP HANDGUN ammo bans sale, purchase, and possession of loaded ammo. The bullets alone (not loaded ammo) won't be banned.

If M855 ammo is classed as AP Handgun ammo, under existing law, LOADED AMMO ("Bullets" to the media) will be illegal.
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Are we bumping into another pre-existing distinction, constructive possession, and possibly a useful precedent?

What if I possess some M855 ammo but I don't possess an AR-15 pistol? If the ammo is prohibited as handgun ammo but I don't have a handgun it'll fit, am I still prohibited?

Before you laugh me off the stage, consider the across-the-board situation vis-a-vis ammunition sales to 18, 19, and 20-year olds. They can purchase ammunition for a rifle, but not for a handgun. So, after a short time, they quickly learn to always say "Rifle" when asked what it's for. I have never seen or heard of anyone being required to prove that they own a rifle in the caliber being purchased before being allowed to make the buy.
 
done deal

Well from what I just read on the Drudge Report it's over the ammo is banned the discussion period is over the guide lines ban sale and possession of green tip, it appears that they took the regulation to print in the new guide lines ahead of time which could indicate that had no intention of listening to any coments
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Assuming that is has a sense of shame, a questionable presumption, respecting it's so-called armor piercing ammunition ban, currently the subject of some discussion, the BATFE, the latest nome de guerre for the federal gun cops has once again prostituted itself to the ill conceived desires of a bunch of anti gun rights persons, that unfortunately include the president of this country.

One can put as much lipstick on this pig as might be desired however it remains that, in my view, the fact that anti gun rights politics looms large is inescapable, considerations of fact be damned.
 
ATF Has Already Banned 5.56mm

Apparently, the latest edition of the ATF Regulation Guide (revised every 10 years) was published in January, and has already eliminated the 5.56mm green tip exemption.

Here is a link to the article with the exemption page from the previous (2005 Edition) of the publication; and the same page from latest edition (published January, 2015) with the 5.56mm green tip exemption missing.

This means that the ATF has unilaterally changed the law and put up a bogus comment period strictly for show. Seems like this should end up in court as they have failed to follow the Administrative Procedures Act and gone around Congress.
 
In other words, someone's dog ate their homework. This is telling of how stupid they must think we are. To believe that this 30 year old exemption was accidentally and coincidentally omitted within months of the ban attempt strains credulity.
 
SO, possession of the loaded ammo becomes illegal, what do you do? Shoot it all off in a blaze of glory (and hope you fire it all before the gunpolice show up?

Pull the bullets? (only loaded ammo AP is banned, not the bullets themselves)

Turn it in? for (most likely) no compensation?

What are YOU going to do, if it happens?
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You make a white flag, with a black cartridge with a green tip centered on it, with a black star over it and the words "Come And Take It" underneath.

I'll make a million!
 
Neither of the links made it clear to me, although one was specific that they were talking about the ONLINE guide.

What, about an actual printed BOOK??? (not hardcopy printed from, a data file).

Yes, it absolutely looks like they made up their (small) minds, changed the rule, changed the listing of the rules, THEN asked for public comments on the "proposed" (in fact already done) changed.

They can explain away a "regrettable error" in a computer document, after all, its only one or two clicks to make the "mistake".

But, I'm still old school, and (like a lot of other people), think that a published book gets, or should get, a higher level of scrutiny.

IF their published book contains the same "regrettable error" and was delivered before the change was announced, I move the matter from "mistake" to "deliberate action".
 
re the supposed Public Comment Period

Approximately a week ago, I sent comment in opposition to the proposed ammunition ban to the BATFE utilizing BOTH the surface mail address and the email address listed elsewhere. I've had no response to my mailed comments, perhaps they are being "sanitized", who knows. Regarding the email comments sent, same comments, I've had from Verizon, my service provider, several emails listing their attempts to transmit my email, none being successful, my emails all being "delayed". I have no problems send any other emails. Today, I will try send my comments via a fax, curious as to how that will turn out.

Who knows, but what it might turn out, as has been suggested here by others, that this "public comment period" was nothing but a phoney ploy, something to put off The Great Unwashed, the books having been already cooked, a saying likely familiar to readers here. Possibly, communications addressed to elected officials, senators and congressmen might have some effect, who knows. In any event, the claim that earlier was heard, re the Obama administration being honest and open, who believed that, might finally be put out with the rest of the trash. In any event, considering that this M855 ban appears to be a "done deal",one wonders as to what might come next. Keep an eye pealed.
 
They can explain away a "regrettable error" in a computer document, after all, its only one or two clicks to make the "mistake".
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A "computer error" doesn't explain it. A computer error results in gibberish or the loss of huge blocks of data. Computer errors don't delete one specific paragraph and leave everything else intact.

I notice the exemption for black-tip .30-06 has also disappeared. Basically, they're going with the definition in 921(a)(17)(B) with no exceptions.
 
In post # 145 buckhorn_cortez wrote, as excerpted from that post:
Senior Member

ATF Has Already Banned 5.56mm, and also wrote

This means that the ATF has unilaterally changed the law and put up a bogus comment period strictly for show. Seems like this should end up in court as they have failed to follow the Administrative Procedures Act and gone around Congress.

Our beloved ATF utilizing "a bogus comment period", in other words, possibly lying, say it isn't so Joe, say it isn't so
 
A "computer error" doesn't explain it.
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A "computer operator error" does.

Two clicks, highlight, then delete. Ooops!??

They can claim what ever they want, but it looks like they just got caught trying to put one over on us.
 
You do know the ATF doesn't have a "voting box" they aren't elected. Obama is a lame duck president and isn't up for re-election and has nothing to lose and will veto anything passed in the house and senate unless it's veto proof... which won't happen. We MIGHT get a redo if a republican replaces Obama, but who the heck knows.

I've been wrong before, but on this we just got screwed.
 
We need to steer away from partisan politics, especially on this issue. This whole situation is the result of a bill that was cosponsored by politicians of both parties, approved by a bipartisan vote, and eagerly signed by President Reagan.

It is a pleasure to be able to sign into law H.R. 3132 to ban the production or importation of the so-called cop-killer bullets, which pose an unreasonable threat to law enforcement officers who use soft body armor. This bill, similar to legislation jointly submitted to the Congress by the Departments of Justice and the Treasury in 1984, recognizes that certain forms of ammunition have no legitimate sporting, recreational, or self-defense use and thus should be prohibited. Such action is long overdue.
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