ATF Project Gunrunner
- Thread starter Al Norris
- Start date
A note for anyone wishing to post a comment at the NYP link. The site truncates everything after the use of an ampersand. If you post "I believe that F and F is a bad program" you are fine. If you post "I believe that F&F is a bad program" is will post as "I believe that F".
I don't know why that is the way the site works.
I don't know why that is the way the site works.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
News report traces the majority of sales of U.S. firearms to Mexican drug cartels to two major gun dealers in the United States: Department of State and Department of Defense.
Source: http://biggovernment.com/tstilson/2...rimary-suppliers-of-mexican-drug-cartel-guns/
Source: http://biggovernment.com/tstilson/2...rimary-suppliers-of-mexican-drug-cartel-guns/
The question comes to mind - what is the overall goal. On a functional and operational level I have every belief the Hope and Change crew is incompetent and is trying to make its own news to support it beliefs.
They want more and further gun control so they create murder, mayhem and chaos by operations such as Felonious Failure.
The state department would be more concerned with international agreements and relationships so the release of weapons to drug dealers might be to back one side or another. Overall it seems to be a insane policy though because no matter who you arm you can’t control how the weapons are used and the end result is instability not stability. (More Hope and Change incompetence)
The really odd part is any DOD involvement because they have a duty to follow the orders of the civilian chain of command and a duty to protect our nation and this seems to be a direct conflict. It seems to me on a surface level that any order given in this regard was highly likely unlawful and the whole chain of command all the way to the Commander in Chief would bear the consequences and the responsibility.
Still in the end (I don’t know enough about the Mexico situation to have an education opinion on its internal struggles) it seems the only reasonable outcome was murder on both sides of the border. I have said it before but if we weren’t a military super power Mexico would rightly be able to consider this the act of war that it is.
Our national government armed felons and drug dealers with weapons that it expected would be used against our citizenry and Mexico’s citizens. You can be right or left or whatever on the political scale but there’s no getting around that US Agents were murdered without committing crimes and without a trial and without a judgment and that is a crime against the Constitution because it was an act our government funded and was the only reasonable expectation that a reasonable person could have.
Also given the overall breath and apparent width of the operation the executive responsible for leadership of all these departments must be held responsible for the actions he had responsibility to know of and supervise. Our system has impeached itself even if our congress hasn’t.. this cannot stand...
They want more and further gun control so they create murder, mayhem and chaos by operations such as Felonious Failure.
The state department would be more concerned with international agreements and relationships so the release of weapons to drug dealers might be to back one side or another. Overall it seems to be a insane policy though because no matter who you arm you can’t control how the weapons are used and the end result is instability not stability. (More Hope and Change incompetence)
The really odd part is any DOD involvement because they have a duty to follow the orders of the civilian chain of command and a duty to protect our nation and this seems to be a direct conflict. It seems to me on a surface level that any order given in this regard was highly likely unlawful and the whole chain of command all the way to the Commander in Chief would bear the consequences and the responsibility.
Still in the end (I don’t know enough about the Mexico situation to have an education opinion on its internal struggles) it seems the only reasonable outcome was murder on both sides of the border. I have said it before but if we weren’t a military super power Mexico would rightly be able to consider this the act of war that it is.
Our national government armed felons and drug dealers with weapons that it expected would be used against our citizenry and Mexico’s citizens. You can be right or left or whatever on the political scale but there’s no getting around that US Agents were murdered without committing crimes and without a trial and without a judgment and that is a crime against the Constitution because it was an act our government funded and was the only reasonable expectation that a reasonable person could have.
Also given the overall breath and apparent width of the operation the executive responsible for leadership of all these departments must be held responsible for the actions he had responsibility to know of and supervise. Our system has impeached itself even if our congress hasn’t.. this cannot stand...
Last edited:
HarrySchell
New member
Alan writes:
What an apt description! "Crooked as a dog's hind leg" just isn't near as effective an analogy.
What an apt description! "Crooked as a dog's hind leg" just isn't near as effective an analogy.
HarrySchell
New member
Alan,
I had not seen it before.
It is perfect. A corkscrew is pointed and can hurt people, and never has a hope of getting straight. Any dog can get a hind leg straighter if they want to, but a corkscrew...it can't change even if it wants to. It has few alternative uses, also! Use it too much and you end up incapacitated, ill and messy all over yourself...
Hilarious and descriptive.
Harry
I had not seen it before.
It is perfect. A corkscrew is pointed and can hurt people, and never has a hope of getting straight. Any dog can get a hind leg straighter if they want to, but a corkscrew...it can't change even if it wants to. It has few alternative uses, also! Use it too much and you end up incapacitated, ill and messy all over yourself...
Hilarious and descriptive.
Harry
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Watch the skirting into pure politics. Always a risk. Stay with the facts and avoid just ranting. Even if the rant might be valid. Otherwise we end up ranting about the faults of all politicians.
Thank you. Eat turkey and relax.
Thank you. Eat turkey and relax.
armoredman
New member
No turkey. Having Thanksgiving tacos.
Bart said in part #1456
All aircraft have a registration number on the side to be identified by Air Traffic Control to prevent midair collisions and to send flight instructions.
For example, if you use binoculars to read an N number like: N304PD
You can go to: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N304PD
to find out that the aircraft is owned and operated by CITY OF TUCSON POLICE DEPARTMENT.
This database contains information on almost every aircraft in America.
Try it out.
Imagine the outcry if this database was used for cars.
Edit: I started reading this thread when I signed up and now I'm finally caught up
All aircraft have a registration number on the side to be identified by Air Traffic Control to prevent midair collisions and to send flight instructions.
For example, if you use binoculars to read an N number like: N304PD
You can go to: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N304PD
to find out that the aircraft is owned and operated by CITY OF TUCSON POLICE DEPARTMENT.
This database contains information on almost every aircraft in America.
Try it out.
Imagine the outcry if this database was used for cars.
Edit: I started reading this thread when I signed up and now I'm finally caught up
Last edited:
Comprehensive history of F&F by Arizona Republic
This is the most comprehensive story of F&F that I've read so far
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...un-probe-operation-fast-and-furious-fall.html
There is a lot to digest in this article - its more like a book now. But one thing that struck me was the pressure Mexican President Felipe Calderón was exerting on the U.S. which seemingly translated into a lot of pressure on BATFE to stop the flow of weapons south.
This is the most comprehensive story of F&F that I've read so far
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...un-probe-operation-fast-and-furious-fall.html
There is a lot to digest in this article - its more like a book now. But one thing that struck me was the pressure Mexican President Felipe Calderón was exerting on the U.S. which seemingly translated into a lot of pressure on BATFE to stop the flow of weapons south.