ATF Project Gunrunner

The CIA is fairly well renowned for taking the long way around when it comes to manipulating the political environments of countries we take an interest in.
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Just look at Cuba if not sure of this...

Brent
 
According to the Wasington Times article mentioned above, the CIA wanted to arm the Sinaloa Cartel, which has ties to the Mexican military, as a counter-balance to the Zetas who threaten the political structure. Hmmm. Seems like it would have been more efficient simply to sell some guns to the military and let the Sinaloas steal them. Wait, didn't they do that, too?
 
we should not shrug off the activities of any of our federal agencies that broke the law on the Sinaloa’s - and thus the Mexican government’s - behalf.
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Evidently the Sinaloa cartel needed guns and giving them to the Mexi military or government would have been doing the same thing, but I suppose for tracing purposes it's better to give them straight to the thugs because we can't have Mexican military weapons showing up in the cartels or at the crime scenes and any time you can cut out a middle man the system's efficiency should improve. Besides...we needed Calderone to address our congress with a straight face.

It's the Twilight Zone....but they'll get it all figured out.:)
 
The CIA is fairly well renowned for taking the long way around when it comes to manipulating the political environments of countries we take an interest in.
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and they are also fairly well renowned for those manipulations coming back to bite us in the butt.:eek:
 
"n a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence" Peter's Principle (Dr. Laurence J. Peter - The Peter Principle: Why Things Always Go Wrong (1969)).
 
It is a blatant slap in the face to Representative Issa and the committee, plus every law abiding gun owner who gets hit with the splatter from ATFE's criminal activities. Or it could be that they expect to be terminated, and want to be at the highest pay rate to cash out unused leave balances and retirement.:eek:
 
I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but honestly - the first thing I thought of when I read this is that these guys have knowledge that is valuable - like incriminating information about the President's involvement with this or Eric Holder's involvement...

That's the first thing I thought of. They can't fire these guys because they might recollect a meeting or a memo from Holder or Obama that would put those guys in a very bad light.

I think they're being taken care of for their silence.
 
"n a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence" Peter's Principle (Dr. Laurence J. Peter - The Peter Principle: Why Things Always Go Wrong (1969)).
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I think, at best, we may be looking at "The Dilbert Principle". Scott Adams, the creator of "Dilbert" said: "I wrote The Dilbert Principle around the concept that in many cases the least competent, least smart people are promoted, simply because they’re the ones you don’t want doing actual work. You want them ordering the doughnuts and yelling at people for not doing their assignments—you know, the easy work. Your heart surgeons and your computer programmers—your smart people—aren’t in management. That principle was literally happening everywhere".

At worst, the more corrupt you are, the higher you rise in government. The second scenario seems more plausible.
 
I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but honestly - the first thing I thought of when I read this is that these guys have knowledge that is valuable - like incriminating information about the President's involvement with this or Eric Holder's involvement...
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If "Gunrunner" and "Fast & Furious" are not conspiracies, what are they? More "coincidences", right?
 
If "Gunrunner" and "Fast & Furious" are not conspiracies, what are they? More "coincidences", right?
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A new federal entitlement program for criminals by aspiring criminals.... Sad state of affairs....
 
I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but honestly - the first thing I thought of when I read this is that these guys have knowledge that is valuable - like incriminating information about the President's involvement with this or Eric Holder's involvement.
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That could very well be part of it.

It could also be that the Bureau has trouble finding qualified recruits to fill the vacuum. The ATF is about the bottom of the totem pole in terms of wages, benefits, and quality of work environment. The good recruits are going to work for the DEA or FBI. As such, moving Newell and Voth to other departments keeps them in the organization as assets, all while shielding them from further blowback.

I think, at best, we may be looking at "The Dilbert Principle."
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Or that ;) I frequently joke that, if I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't be in management.
 
The article should read:

The program was claimed to be intended to identify Mexican drug cartel leaders and smuggling routes across the border by allowing illegal purchases of firearms and then tracking the weapons. Instead, many of the guns simply vanished.
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Weich added that Holder first spoke to Melson about the operation "in or about late April" of this year, after the attorney general learned of the program and during a regular briefing.
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Holder seems to have a very hands-off management style. Months after the first letter from Grassley about this scandal was sent to his office, he got around to bringing it up with his subordinate in charge in a regular briefing. If true, that's a bit too hands-off IMO.
 
Once again, we get (very) close to conspiracy theory. sigh...

Obama blows whistle on his own law enforcement agents in Mexico

Obama also said the American lawmen provided only “technical assistance” to help in the war on drug cartels....

The U.S. government was merely sharing intelligence information and consulting with the Mexican military through its agents in Mexico, Obama said....

U.S. officials were quick to say the agents and contractors are not permitted the use of firearms....

Obama also wished to emphasize that he had no plans to increase the number or the role of the U.S. agents in Mexico.
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For those of you that are too young to remember, if you replace "Mexico" with "Viet Nam," you will get a better idea of what is happening.

The war on Communism vs. the war on Drugs... Too far fetched? Read George Santayana.
 
Re "promotioms for management at ATF", this mentioned in a couple of earlier posts,(an article from the LA Times), does this surprise anyone?
 
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