ATF Project Gunrunner

ATF’s “war on drugs” operation known as “Fast & Furious.”
Click to expand...
War on drugs?

Maybe BATFE is categorizing Alcohol and Tobacco as drugs and those Mexican Drug Lords are using too much of both!
 
Last edited:
C0untZer0 said:
ATF’s “war on drugs” operation known as “Fast & Furious.”
Click to expand...
War on drugs?

Maybe BATFE is categorizing Alcohol and Tobacco as drugs and those Mexican Drug Lords are using too much of both!
Click to expand...
Leaving aside that I'm not sure how else you'd categorize alcohol and tobacco...

Characterizing "Fast and Furious" as part of the "war on drugs" doesn't seem very farfetched, given this statement from the ATF's "Project Gunrunner" page:

Project Gunrunner’s objective is to deny Mexican drug cartels the tools of the trade, which they employ to murder rival drug traffickers, civilians, as well as political, military, and law enforcement figures in order to strengthen their grip on the lucrative drug and firearms routes into and out of the United States.​
 
The DEA is so understaffed they need BATFE to help them on the "war on drugs?"

I don't think so... And I question their characterization of Fast & Furious. I wish I was on that House panel - that would have been one of the first things I asked "War on drugs? Who do you think you are - the DEA?"

I object to BATFE expanding their empire.

Next we'll see them going after inner city drug gangs, the mafia, and what else? They seem to think that any criminal with a firearm falls under their jurisdiction.

My opinion is that everything they touch they screw up. The last thing America needs is for them to be involved in any other kinds of investigations whatsoever.
 
Project Gunrunner’s objective is to deny Mexican drug cartels the tools of the trade
Click to expand...

By supplying them with over 2,000 such tools which we have no realistic way to track in Mexico... It would sound very 1984-ish in its doublespeak except even Orwell probably thought that plot line was too far fetched to sell.
 
It would sound very 1984-ish in its doublespeak except even Orwell probably thought that plot line was too far fetched to sell.
Click to expand...
Oceania has always been at war with Europa.

Basically, the ATF is helping stem the flow of contraband weapons southwards by sending contraband weapons southward. Makes perfect sense.

The logic reminds me of Gibbon's summation of the late Roman empire: the whole system was a tax-collecting apparatus that collected taxes to support the tax-collecting apparatus.
 
Basically, the ATF is helping stem the flow of contraband weapons southwards by sending contraband weapons southward. Makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

Tom called it right...... Nothing like our tax dollars sending guns directly to the criminals to stop non existant flow of guns from FFL dealers.....
 
BGutzman Quote:
Basically, the ATF is helping stem the flow of contraband weapons southwards by sending contraband weapons southward. Makes perfect sense.

Tom called it right...... Nothing like our tax dollars sending guns directly to the criminals to stop non existant flow of guns from FFL dealers.....

Yesterday 09:40 PM
Tom Servo Quote:
It would sound very 1984-ish in its doublespeak except even Orwell probably thought that plot line was too far fetched to sell.

Oceania has always been at war with Europa.

Basically, the ATF is helping stem the flow of contraband weapons southwards by sending contraband weapons southward. Makes perfect sense.

The logic reminds me of Gibbon's summation of the late Roman empire: the whole system was a tax-collecting apparatus that collected taxes to support the tax-collecting apparatus.
--------------------------------------

How does "your tax dollars at work" ring in the view or hearing of readers here.

It strikes me that the hides of Obama and Holder et al aught to be nailed to the back fence, and allowed to dry. Of course, nothing of the sort will happen, sovereign immunity of some such foolishness will be trotted out, still the idea strikes me as interesting, even in the philosophical or rhetorical sense.
 
Holder is not immune to the law, and will get nailed one day. The President will be given a pass as long as something with his signature on it doesn't show up.
 
Holder won't be held accountable. Suitable scapegoats will be sacrificed on the altar of Congress, and life in Washington will continue, unabated and unchecked by the supposed "checks and balances" built into the system. The problem with our system of government is that it was created by men who were fundamentally both ethical and idealistic. I don't think, either individually or collectively, they had the capacity to envision how corrupted our form of government could become while still nominally remaining within its Constitutional framework.

It's all in buying the right judges ...
 
Last edited:
It never ceases to amaze me that the government can break laws at will with little regard..... Crimes that you and I would get life sentences for are commited with alarming regularity.....

Sad state of affairs..
 
In the testimony I watched, the ATF representative (Mr. Newel?) said they wanted to identify the drug kingpins. But they admitted that Mexico knew who the drug kingpins were (Or maybe I miss-understood the response to the question posed by the senator).


Also, once the kingpin was "Identified" what could the US do with the information? I am under the impression that Mexico and the United States do not have an extradition treaty. Am I wrong on this also?

I have always taught that honesty is the best policy and to respect authority. But when people like this abuse that trust and their authority, it sure makes me and others look like guppies.
 
What we have here is a US government operation that was expanded on until it got totally out of control. Fast and Furious was dreamed up by career BATFE bureaucrats in AZ. They sold the project to their bosses in DC and the US Justice Dep't.

Project Gunrunner got underway in 2006. Operation Fast and Furious began in 2009 with the blessing of the local federal prosecutor. So far as can be determined no guns were "walked" across the border until 2009.

Everyone who cares should read the entire 60 page report prepared by the congressional staff for US Rep. Issa and Sen. Grassley:

http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/Reports/FINAL_FINAL.pdf
 
Uncle Buck,

The U.S. and Mexico have had a number of extradition treaties since at least the 1860's. Most recently, Mexican drug lord Benjamin Arrellano Felix (sp?) was extradited to the U.S. this spring. If I remember correctly, the current treaty will not allow the extradition of Mexican citizens if they will be facing the death penalty, something Mexico abolished several years ago.

The difficulty, of course, of extraditing a Mexican citizen who has not physically entered the U.S. to commit a crime is having enough evidence to show that he is the cause of crimes in the U.S. and those crimes were commited at his behest.
 
Also, once the kingpin was "Identified" what could the US do with the information?
Click to expand...

It is actually worse than that. Several of the people ATF targeted were FBI and DEA informants. They weren't ever going to be charged or extradited because they were already working for us. See the testimony from the second set of hearings for more details.
 
BGutzman wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me that the government can break laws at will with little regard..... Crimes that you and I would get life sentences for are commited with alarming regularity.....

Sad state of affairs..
__________________
Freedom is legislated away one bill at a time.......

----------------------

Does Do As We Say, Not As We Do not have a certain ring?
 
Thanks Don H. I was looking further in to this and found basically what you have written. But I still feel either way (whether they could extradite a kingpin or not) that the Mexican Government knows who is who and if they caught the person, would they really risk sending them to the US? I think the Mexican Law Enforcement officials would rather end it there on the spot than have to risk prison breaks and retaliation.

Bartholomew Roberts That is a very good point. Just like the gun shop who was indicted and then when their attorney pointed out they were following ATF requests. Charges dropped.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top