wow im waiting on my ccw permit to arive myself its our right to carry and defend ourselves and pepole around us but man i would think 1 main with a spare mag and maby a bug would do just fine i say ne more than a few shots and ur not defending ur in a freaking all out gun fight lol
At what point does being prepared go overboard
- Thread starter chexmix
- Start date
The Tourist
Moderator
AZAK said:
Things like this aren't driven by the government. It's more of a factor of the government getting involved because people go to extremes.
For example, there were no "handlebar regs" when I was a kid. Then every idiot in the county tried building ape-hangers taller than his competition.
How about those little 'ricer' cars? People have been peacefully customizing cars for decades. That is until some clown made his ride a rolling bass drum, outfitted with a muffler bigger than a diesel truck.
And history should be a guide here. When the TV show "Sea Hunt" became popular, every newbie bought tanks and fins and started diving without any training. Fearing legislation, the scuba industry set their own standard before the government clamped down. I believe those regs are still in place.
And I'm not going to pull any punches by painting these guys as 'idiots.' Everyone, including the cops, knows that many Harley Screaming Eagle parts fail to meet road standards and should be limited to racing competition. Most folks, and again the cops, looked the other way.
Then came the idiots with straight pipes, launching at full throttle.
Sure enough, there now exists a group called "Noise Free America" (or by a similar name) that is pushing for national specs.
We can stand by and keep repeating that "freedom is freedom." But since when has that ever meant anything to centrists with an agenda? Our enumerated rights include the phrase "shall not be infringed." Yikes, there are over 20,000 state and federal laws that 'infringe' on us now.
The left has tried to get purchases limited to one gun per month. And if too many of these idiots are arrested with multiple guns and dozens of spare rounds, you can bet some senator will grab headlines for imposing limits on CCW licenses.
Oh, and as for the mental health issue, you should know that I am bipolar. Due to some caring friends, family and dedicated health professionals I enjoy life like never before.
I think moderation should be a guide here.
Edit: Go visit http://www.noisefree.org/index.php ...and by the way, firearms are mentioned...
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FreakGasolineFight
New member
I don't see why he shouldn't carry three, five, however many guns he wants to. It's his right. Not that it being his right necessarily makes it a particularly good idea.
I'm sort of trying to imagine him defending himself in court if he so happened to have to shoot someone in self-defense. If someone who carries three guns looks insane to folks who habitually carry guns themselves, imagine just how insane he's going to look to the typical citizen. Sort of the same scenario as the guy who defends himself with a pimped-out camo Glock with "Smile, wait for flash" engraved on the front of the barrel. You're going to look either like a basket-case or like you were just waiting to 'pop a cap' and get that street cred that you want just so very much.
I'm sort of trying to imagine him defending himself in court if he so happened to have to shoot someone in self-defense. If someone who carries three guns looks insane to folks who habitually carry guns themselves, imagine just how insane he's going to look to the typical citizen. Sort of the same scenario as the guy who defends himself with a pimped-out camo Glock with "Smile, wait for flash" engraved on the front of the barrel. You're going to look either like a basket-case or like you were just waiting to 'pop a cap' and get that street cred that you want just so very much.
So we should impose regulations upon ourselves, before others do, to insure others do not try.
Maybe we should just fight tooth and nail against regulations from anyone. Band together to stop reductions on freedoms, and reduce those that exist.
Sounds like Tourist wants us to band together to restrict ourselves so others do not.
Kinda like, I'll punch myself before the bully can, that way the bully doesn't punch me. Either way I'm still getting punched. How is that better?
Maybe we should just fight tooth and nail against regulations from anyone. Band together to stop reductions on freedoms, and reduce those that exist.
Sounds like Tourist wants us to band together to restrict ourselves so others do not.
Kinda like, I'll punch myself before the bully can, that way the bully doesn't punch me. Either way I'm still getting punched. How is that better?
If he's legal to pack all that weight, I've got no problem. But I've got to tell you, he's a nut...personal protection is one thing...but this guys carrying more stuff than a combat Marine. Barney Fife...Walter Mitty...a ranger in his own mind...is my opinion. And I don't want him around me or mine...geez, I hope he doesn't get into a shooting incident...he'll be the poster child for the next round of "take all the guns away" fanatics. A nutter for sure. Rodfac
The Tourist
Moderator
doh_312 said:
I didn't come anywhere near that position and you know it! What's the big problem with being a mentor once in awhile? You taught your kid not to run with scissors, didn't you?
Like it or not, there are codes of behavior. Just because you have 2A doesn't mean you get a free ride to do anything, anywhere with a firearm. Frankly, if more dads and grandfathers would take a stronger position on topics like this we wouldn't even need this thread.
To the contrary, it kind of sounds to to me like you're a tad foolish to be around.
Emphasis by AZAK
The problem with this type of logic is that all anyone needs to do is to check the news on a regular basis, and they WILL be able to find "these idiots". (Depends on just how you define "these idiots"; however, I think that they are in the news fairly often.)
While I believe that it is important to be an ambassador for gun rights/gun ownership in our words and actions, it is also paramount to NOT give up our rights out of a fear that someone else will see us as "strange" or "different".
Kind of reminds me of why some folks came over to this part of the world in the first place.
The Tourist
Moderator
AZAK said:
Okay, fair enough. But to continue the debate, let's draw an analogy not connected to guns.
How would you like your hometown to be the center of my club's next picnic? Think about that for a minute before you continue with my post.
But we are nice guys, we don't break the law and charity work is one of the planks that we were founded upon. I'll bet we could pull off the whole shindig without violating a single statute.
Now how do you feel about "restaint" and "mentoring"?
Without those self-imposed guidelines and dictates I could see a few twenty year old drunken hotheads stir up some trouble mighty fast. But we have folks we call "patriarchs" who would never allow that conduct.
And that is all I ever implied.
Of course we could all demand a more "in your face" approach, and tick off everyone including each other. But ask yourself if you would have any firearms at all if the last generation would have acted without restraint.
I apologize Tourist, this statement, plus the others in the post led me to think that is what you were hinting at. Citing examples of those who went "too far" and then were regulated by Govt, then giving the example of SCUBA regulating themselves, and that is how they "kept" Govt out of their business. Couldn't help but draw that connection.
If your organization wants to come to my hometown and put on some shindig, all the power to ya. Matter of fact, I'll probably come check out the party. You'll have what ever firepower you like, I'll have what I like, we'll have a good time hanging out enjoying the sunshine. Most likely, you'll never what I'm packing, and likewise for me with you.
I'm willing to bet there are plenty of people in our Nation that pack a lot of firepower with them daily and never have any problems. I've had up to four pistols on me at once, though that was more for experimental purposes, I do not carry that much regularly. No one was any wiser than the days when I carry one gun.
less is more?
i tried my hardest not to post here, but, yeah, somethings not right with the guy. even if he isnt crazy, hes got his self defense scenario all screwed up in his head. or to give it a spin in his direction, hes only concerned about his own personal safety without any concern for bystanders standing down range.
im no psychologist, but a person who carries 3 guns, and 4 mags, is planning on, when confronted with trouble, sending as many rounds towards the bad guy(s) as possible, to ensure total victory
but that comes at a cost of civilians caught down range
you could argue that he may be responsible in the quantity and accuracy in his gunfire, but id think not. im betting he practices shooting as quickly as possible, reloading as fast as possible, and then repeating steps 1 and 2 until hes out of ammo. or, he could empty his first gun, pull the bug, empty that, pull the bug bug gun, empty that, and then decide to reload his primary gun, since you know, new york reload is faster than a proper reload.
its not how many guns he carries, its how he might use them. id feel the same way if a guy carried only one gun, but 6 extra mags on them.
i tried my hardest not to post here, but, yeah, somethings not right with the guy. even if he isnt crazy, hes got his self defense scenario all screwed up in his head. or to give it a spin in his direction, hes only concerned about his own personal safety without any concern for bystanders standing down range.
im no psychologist, but a person who carries 3 guns, and 4 mags, is planning on, when confronted with trouble, sending as many rounds towards the bad guy(s) as possible, to ensure total victory
but that comes at a cost of civilians caught down range
you could argue that he may be responsible in the quantity and accuracy in his gunfire, but id think not. im betting he practices shooting as quickly as possible, reloading as fast as possible, and then repeating steps 1 and 2 until hes out of ammo. or, he could empty his first gun, pull the bug, empty that, pull the bug bug gun, empty that, and then decide to reload his primary gun, since you know, new york reload is faster than a proper reload.
its not how many guns he carries, its how he might use them. id feel the same way if a guy carried only one gun, but 6 extra mags on them.
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The Tourist
Moderator
doh_312 said:
No, no, I was never offended. But thank you for reading my post without dismissing it out of hand.
(Ya' know, if you like to debate--and I love to--sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.
) Overall, I think this idea is falling out of favor, for two reasons. Younger guys don't like to be preached at, and older folks are just shirking too much responsibility.
I am a strict constructionist, and I think the 2A means what it says. I also believe that curbing your mouth and tempering your behavior goes a long way in winning over your opponents.
I would feel better if we were talking: "education" and "mentoring".
Are you talking about individually "self-imposed" or "social"?
Emphasis by AZAK
Unless these "patriarchs" are 24/7 babysitters, I fail to see how they can or can not allow "that conduct".
As I stated earlier, I am all in favor of being ambassadors for gun ownership and gun rights. I am also adamant about properly educating those coming up behind us. Being a mentor is a wonderful role in life. If you want to nip the "twenty year old druken hotheads" in the bud as it were, my suggestion would be to start educating them a bit sooner; not to say that this group can not be "helped", but that if you are looking for a certain behavior and moral code that education really should begin much earlier.
The Tourist
Moderator
AZAK, yes, I also agree that education is important. However all of the education in the world isn't of much value if the 'student' isn't taught or shown how to (and when) to apply that in a society.
As for being a 'patriarch,' yes, there is some babysitting, I'm afraid. But a patriarch also teaches and provides limits simply by his conduct. If you admire a role model, you don't want to disappoint him.
I always joke that I wasn't a "real biker" when I first joined, but I was when I went inactive. And that applies here, as well.
Just because a guy buys a rifle doesn't mean he's a hunter, a good shot, a sportsman or even adult in his thinking. That's where a mentor comes in.
As the newb grows he acquires those needed ideals. And as he succeeds he recognizes that value, and will "pay it forward" throughout his life.
Personally, a guy who thumps, "I'm an American and I'll utilize my enumerated rights whenever I darn well please" might be defining a truth. However, he sure isn't defining his maturity.
As for being a 'patriarch,' yes, there is some babysitting, I'm afraid. But a patriarch also teaches and provides limits simply by his conduct. If you admire a role model, you don't want to disappoint him.
I always joke that I wasn't a "real biker" when I first joined, but I was when I went inactive. And that applies here, as well.
Just because a guy buys a rifle doesn't mean he's a hunter, a good shot, a sportsman or even adult in his thinking. That's where a mentor comes in.
As the newb grows he acquires those needed ideals. And as he succeeds he recognizes that value, and will "pay it forward" throughout his life.
Personally, a guy who thumps, "I'm an American and I'll utilize my enumerated rights whenever I darn well please" might be defining a truth. However, he sure isn't defining his maturity.
How is asserting one's rights a sign of immaturity? I'm not seeing the connection there.
If we all believed asseting rights was immature, and cared that other saw us as mature, we would still be living under an English King's rule. Asserting our right, regardless of how offended others were, is sort of how we got America in the first place. Laying down our rights, for PC, maturity or otherwise, is a direct path to losing America.
If we all believed asseting rights was immature, and cared that other saw us as mature, we would still be living under an English King's rule. Asserting our right, regardless of how offended others were, is sort of how we got America in the first place. Laying down our rights, for PC, maturity or otherwise, is a direct path to losing America.
The Tourist
Moderator
doh_312 said:
You have to start reading my stuff a bit more carefully in the future. To great length we have discussed the proper way to conduct one's affairs.
We are not talking about asserting one's rights. We are talking about the manner in which this opinion is expressed.
We all know that we have rights under 1A, 2A, and 4A. But I can guaranty to you that in a polite exchange with a traffic officer I can convey those same rights to a better outcome than some smart-mouth kid who's going to get cuffed and stuffed.
This is why the role of a mentor is so important to me.
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The bottom line, as usual, is the lack of personal responsibility. I firmly believe that, with freedom, comes responsibility, and not the freedom to act like an anal sphincter just because you can.
The lack of responsibility in the name of "freedom" is exactly why we have pornographers who hide behind the 1st Amendment, for one, or so called "artistes" who photograph naked little boys and proclaim it to be artistic freedom of expression for another.
This, of course, is just my opinion...
The lack of responsibility in the name of "freedom" is exactly why we have pornographers who hide behind the 1st Amendment, for one, or so called "artistes" who photograph naked little boys and proclaim it to be artistic freedom of expression for another.
This, of course, is just my opinion...
FALshootist
New member
At work I carry a primarry and a back up along with a small lock blade pocket knife years ago when I was in uniform the knife was a leatherman tool which was substantially more useful than just a knife.
Off duty I usually carry one gun, one reload and the small lock blade.
I've known a number of fools that carried more than two guns. But you should only carry what you can control even if that means no weapon (only you know your own capabilities). There is no reason to turn a scuffle with an unarmed subject into a scuffle with an armed subject because everywhere he grabs you he comes up with a gun.
My first year on the job I worked for a sergeant that carried 4-5 guns depending on the weather (duty gun on belt, 2 ankle guns, 45 in shoulder holster and 25 in jacket pocket) I hated to see him roll up on a scene.
Off duty I usually carry one gun, one reload and the small lock blade.
I've known a number of fools that carried more than two guns. But you should only carry what you can control even if that means no weapon (only you know your own capabilities). There is no reason to turn a scuffle with an unarmed subject into a scuffle with an armed subject because everywhere he grabs you he comes up with a gun.
My first year on the job I worked for a sergeant that carried 4-5 guns depending on the weather (duty gun on belt, 2 ankle guns, 45 in shoulder holster and 25 in jacket pocket) I hated to see him roll up on a scene.
ezenbrowntown
New member
To each their own.........
.....but personally, if I need that much firepower, I've forgotten another crucial tool in my toolbag: the ability to flee. I usually have my EDC and an extra magazine. If I'm having to reload, I hope I have enough wits about me to use it to get me to safety.
Once again, everyone is different, but if I've shot through two guns and two mags deep into a 4 magazine supply........I've stuck around way too long.
.....but personally, if I need that much firepower, I've forgotten another crucial tool in my toolbag: the ability to flee. I usually have my EDC and an extra magazine. If I'm having to reload, I hope I have enough wits about me to use it to get me to safety.
Once again, everyone is different, but if I've shot through two guns and two mags deep into a 4 magazine supply........I've stuck around way too long.