Are back up guns needed?

For those using the spare tire analogy isn't the back up gun more like carrying two spare tires? The spare in the trunk is the one you have in case you need it. The second is the one you carry in case that one goes flat.

I only feel the need to carry one gun and one spare tire. (If you don't count the one hanging over by belt.) If I was heading out into the boonies I'd probably have at least two of each.
 
Well, all my carry guns are steel, even the .380. Yes, I know "comforting not comfortable"; damn I wish Clint Smith wouldn't of said that....:)
Personally, as a civilian, I feel any SD predicament you find yourself in should be on the defensive end. Carrying a well-maintained, reliable pistol is sufficient for taking your shots, securing cover, and waiting for the cavalry to arrive.
The argument of mag failure shows it doesn't fit my above criteria for a carry piece.
If you can conceal, and bear the additional burden of a b.u.g., try it and see how long it will last? If you can do it; more power to you...
 
any SD predicament you find yourself in should be on the defensive end.
The only time it was defensive was when you first realized you needed to do something in defense. At that point, it all becomes the most extreme, brutal aggression you can muster.

The argument of mag failure shows it doesn't fit my above criteria for a carry piece.
Things can fail the very next time you use them. Nothing is perfect, even perfect things. If your not prepared for that, then I suppose your unprepared.

If you can conceal, and bear the additional burden of a b.u.g., try it and see how long it will last?
I've been doing it off and on most of my adult life, and daily now for about 10 years. Like I said earlier, its all about "want", not "cant". Like anythng else, once your used to doing it, you soon dont even notice it, except when its not there.
 
I live in 90+ degree year round temps. I do however find myself in high risk situations as I live in the third world. If it wasnt such a terrible burden hiding guns on my person and sweating all over them EVERY day I would carry 2.
Another reason I do not is that almost all buisness here have armed security guards, most with wands.
I dont want to end up in Honduran prison for walking into a store to buy a phone card and getting suprised by a watchman with a wand. I can always, put on my stupid gringo face and do an about face and drop the piece in the truck. Then I really look like I am up to something nasty.
I carry auto with reload and tac knife
 
Things can fail the very next time you use them.
Using that logic, a.k.a "Murphy" anything mechanical in this case can falter at any given time. However, being unsure and not having certainty about your primary carry can lead to a "failure mentality" which I lay strictly on the mind-set of the operator. Judging the factors of a B.U.G., it's location, burden, time lapse, and opportunity leads me to a different conclusion. (BTW, not legal in my state.) As stated before and leaving stat's aside for a moment, no civilian is looking for and engaging in a lengthy fire-fight, "LEO fantasy" that would require more rds other than what's in their carry piece.
Those that can, its legal, or want to: more power to you....:)
 
Some friends took us to an Eagles concert back in January

had to line up out in front of the place and get wanded.... I was going to go back to our car and un-carry but my wife who is 'special' said don't worry about it. sure enough the security guard didn't even get close to me with the wand... but I had already come up with a 'solution' while watching this exercise.... when ever the wand went off the person it detected pulled their car keys or even a pack of smokes (aluminum foil liner) out of their pocket to show what set the wand off and the super cop just said okay and let them pass... no second check. I both my keys and my friends in my pocket near the Sig on my side.

As a side note, I don't think they were looking for weapons but recording equipment.
 
Opinion on BUG changed yesterday...

... had my first squib. See Ugly Squib Today thread in the revolver forum.

If that had happened in an SD scenario (factory SD ammo, not handloads, btw), a BUG would have been wonderful to have, as opposed to just my Applegate-Fairbairn folder.

I'll probably be carrying my LCR more often in BUG mode, from now on.
 
However, being unsure and not having certainty about your primary carry can lead to a "failure mentality" which I lay strictly on the mind-set of the operator.
Theres a difference between worrying about it and preparing for it. Thats why we practice failure and alternative action drills. That way, you dont have to stand there looking stupid and amazed at your gun because its either empty or not working. You've already corrected it or moved on.

Then again, I suppose there are some out there who are invincible because they just have their gun (without a reload yet) along. :rolleyes:

no civilian is looking for and engaging in a lengthy fire-fight, "LEO fantasy" that would require more rds other than what's in their carry piece.
No one is looking for this. Its just some are better prepared than others, on odd chance something more protracted than what the "stats" say its going to be, occurs.

I've never been psychic, and Murphy has always been a very real person for me for some reason. I prefer to err on the heavy side and have too much and an extra, and only use one round, than to have too little, and come up one short.

Then again, I carry a spare tire, a can of 'fix a flat', cables, tools, and never usually let the fuel tank get down below 1/4. Oh, and just because where we live, theres always a rifle in the truck too, and thats "everyones" trucks, not just mine.:D
 
peetzakilla

I've tried in the 47 bazillion other threads about "carry capacity", "back up guns", spare mags" or however else they're worded.

No body has produced a civilian incident that didn't involve home or business (where such things as "carry capacity" are pointless since you can very well have your entire arsenal at your disposal with no inconvenience at all) in which reloads, or back up guns or high capacity saved the life, or the lack thereof cost the life, of the defender.

In Paul Kirchner's book The Deadliest Men he writes in chaper 40 about Lance Thomas. He was born in 1940 and started his own business in 1974 in Los Angeles. The business was antiques clocks and classic watches.

In the first shooting incident was Aug. 1989 Thomas used a 5 shot S&W model 36 against a man who was pointing a 9mm at him demanding the watches. Thomas fires three shots the first hitting the bad guy under the nose the rest missed as he fell to the floor.

Thomas felt under gunned after that incident so purchased three .357 magnum revolvers. He screwed holsters at regular intervals behind the counter to hold the guns.

The second incident was Nov. 1989, involved 5 assailants. Initially two perps entered the store and one grabbed a customer and held a .25acp to her head, the other had a MAC-10 9mm who said" Give it up or we'll kill you." Thomas grabbed one of the .357s and shouted "Hit the deck." The one with the .25 fired eight rounds at Thomas, hitting him three times. Thomas was firing too. He fired 6 shots at the guy with the .25 hitting him 5 times missing once. He tossed the empty gun and grabbed his .38 with which he fired at one of the perps standing outside the door.

The perp with the MAC 10 fired bursts at Thomas as he called 911. Shots can be heard on the tape. Thomas picked up another .357 and emptied it into the perp with the MAC-10 killing him.

After a week in the hospital, he was interviewed by a FBI agent who suggested he switch to semi-autos for the greater ammo capacity. Thomas bought three SIG model 220 in .45acp and one SIG model 225 in 9mm. The FBI agent took Thomas to the shooting range and coached him in the modern pistol technique.

The third incident was Dec. 1991. A 6' 5" 250 pound man with a female accomplice entered the store. The guy handed Thomas a broken watch and as Thomas inspected the watch the man vaulted the counter and pressed a 9mm Glock to his neck. Thomas jerked his head to the side and grabbed a SIG. The man shot Thomas through the neck and hesitated. Thomas fired three 9mm rounds into the man's chest then the SIG jammed. As the man reeled backwards he fired twice more before Thomas grabbed a .45 and stitched him from his knee to his head with 5 shots. Thomas went to the hospital got a band aid and was back at work the next day. The perp died the accomplice fled.

The fourth incident was Feb. 1992. Two teenagers (19 and 17) were buzzed through the door. Thomas became suspicious of their nervousness and surreptitiously pulled a .45 from its holster. One the perps shouted "Your dead!" both teens pulled semiautomatics. The shout gave Thomas time to save his life. Thomas was missed by a bullet and he put most of a magazine into that shooter. The other teen perp was using the door as a shield and firing at Thomas. Thomas grabbed another .45 and fired 4 rounds into that shooter. Both perps died.

He is an example of a private citizen who needed more than the ammo load in one firearm to survive on more than one occasion. He also had a firearm jam on him.

I recommend Paul Kirchner's book as good reading. I just ordered his second book titled MORE OF THE DEADLIEST MEN WHO EVER LIVED .
 
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Well, that's it. I am going to get rid of my car so I can buy a truck and put a spare car in the back of it. In the trunk of the spare care, I will have 4 spare tires and a spare engine. In the back seat of my spare car, I will have a spare scooter with a tire patch kit. Inside of the scooter's trunk, I will have a AAA card.

Hey, somebody at some time in history has probably needed that, so I should prepare myself for it, right?
 
to each his own.
Some think that it is important (me4-1) others don't.
I don't really care if you do or don't or why.
I do because I can & I feel the need.
Some feel the need to blow important topics into ridiculous topics.
Shame on them.
 
Only time i carry a backup is when I go on vacation and stay in motels. You cannot be too carefull.:D
 
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ME: "I don't go to or live in "bad areas", nor I'm I out late at night"

J.Netto "I understand your point, It's better not to put yourself in a situation or place where there is the potential for violence or an attack, but Crime doesn't only happen in bad areas or late at night. I have never bought into the idea that I am safe in my own home, or safe in a public place. Just because you don't go out at night, or venture into a bad area doesn't mean you won't ever be victimized.

So, for me whether I'm going out with my family, or just running down to the grocery store, I'll carry a back up. It seems to me that a civilian should be the prime candidate to carry a back up weapon, simply because if anything was to ever happen, we're on our own. I can't radio for back up. Or what if your weapon fails somehow? If something happens, at that very moment, I am probably the only chance that my family has, so why not take all and any extra measures you can to be as prepared as you can
?"

My comment was directed toward others who might see themself in a similar situation (good neighborhood, low crime ect...) and don't feel the need to carry a 2nd gun. I mowed the yard yesterday with a PM9 in my pocket.

If I can carry a 2nd gun I will, but it isn't doable all the time because of work (I won't elaborate).

Example: if I go to Wal-Mart this Sunday morning I'll have a XD45 compact and a PM9 for the trip. Keep in mind that I've never had a problem there and don't expect to.
 
I mowed the yard yesterday with a PM9 in my pocket.

I swear that sounds like me.:p

I also can't carry 2 guns all of the time. Like you, my work has lots to do with it. But, when I can, I do.
 
Isn't that like asking if you really need two legs, as long as you have one that works perfectly well?

Murphy is alive and well...:D
 
Isn't that like asking if you really need two legs, as long as you have one that works perfectly well?

:confused: That's like asking if you really need 4 tires on your F-150.

The question then should be do you carry one spare or two?

Apples and cantaloupe.
 
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