Are back up guns needed?

There are (to me) any number of scenarios whereby your primary gun ain't available to you. Havin' a BUG is nothing more than a reasoned CHOICE. Some will, some won't - it's personal preference. That ya do doesn't make ya right, that ya don't doesn't make ya right either.

Havin' said that - yeah, I carry a BUG. On the bike, there's usually 2 in my vest, simply so that there's one readily available to either hand. Is two BUGS overkill? Mebbe - but since it's up to me, it's my choice.:D
 
To be fair, it isn't the "same logic" as carrying a spare tire in your trunk.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have trunk like space in my pants with which to hide multiple extra guns.
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If you "want" to carry a gun, or even a spare gun, then you find a way to do it. If you dont want to, then you dont. Its not a matter of "cant", only a matter of "want".

As far as I see, the spare analogy/logic is appropriate. Then again theses days, those who dont, or wont use their spares, are usually the ones you see on the side of the road calling AAA. So I suppose the same logic would be calling 911 in the gun case, and we all know how well that works. Around here, we dont yet have 911, and cell phones dont usually work, except in town.

Statistically, it is extremely unlikely.....
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Statistics are meaningless the one time you need it and didnt have it.

Seems to me, there are statistics on the number of times one round in a six shot cylinder will fire on a random spin and pull of the trigger.

Seems to be about the same here to me. Whats the difference?

I understand your point, It's better not to put yourself in a situation or place where there is the potential for violence or an attack, but Crime doesn't only happen in bad areas or late at night.
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I agree.

Bad things can and do happen, any time, anywhere. If you only carry your gun (or guns) when you "think" you might need them, when do you think you'll likely need them the most?

And, with capacities reaching over 15 in .40 and even in .45 - there's no need for a backup weapon.
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Are you assuming you'll even get the chance to fire one round?

Back in 86', a couple of those FBI boys in that Miami shootout, lost their primary weapon at the onset, simply because they thought it would be quicker to have it out on the seat. The sudden stop sent their gun flying, and forced them to resort to back ups, one of which I believe eventually ended the fight.

If your happy with one gun and whats in it, thats fine, I'll take reloads and a BUG myself.
 
Isn't anyone going to help me out here?:(

Come on guys, having a backup gun is a throwback to the days when there was serious reliablity problems with semi-autos. This was Pre-Glock, pre-HK, pre-Sig when revolvers were common and semi-autos held 7 rounds. There was a darn good reason to carry a back up gun back then. Some FBI noob losing his gun inside of his own vehicle sounds more like a training problem than a malfunctioning firearm problem to me.

There is a difference between "then" and "now".
 
Some FBI noob
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but those were all experienced agents who KNEW what they were doing. Kind of like you KNOW what you are talking about.

Most everyone here will admit that a BUG or BUBUG is not ever going to be needed let alone a primary. It's the fact that if either ever are needed, and you don't have it, you'll be dead. If I can do something as simple as slip a p3at into my back pocket to compliment the .45 and it's reload then that's what I'll do. Doesn't hurt, and it may help.
 
Some FBI noob losing his gun inside of his own vehicle sounds more like a training problem than a malfunctioning firearm problem to me.
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I dont believe they were "noobs", and the fact is, they didnt "have" the weapon to use.

There is a difference between "then" and "now".
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Really, just what is that?
 
Isn't anyone going to help me out here?
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I've tried in the 47 bazillion other threads about "carry capacity", "back up guns", spare mags" or however else they're worded.


No body has produced a civilian incident that didn't involve home or business (where such things as "carry capacity" are pointless since you can very well have your entire arsenal at your disposal with no inconvenience at all) in which reloads, or back up guns or high capacity saved the life, or the lack thereof cost the life, of the defender.

I've talked about the odds. They say the odds don't matter, which is complete nonsense, but there's no convincing. It's always "If you're that 1 in a billion..."

I gave up... or more appropriately, I fall back on what was my original point all along:

Carry whatever the heck you feel like carrying. I don't care. Really, I don't. Yep, there's a point where I'm going to say "That dude needs more to worry about." but who cares? The same dude is thinking "That guys gonna wish he had more guns when the zombie hoards come."
 
No body has produced a civilian incident that didn't involve home or business (where such things as "carry capacity" are pointless since you can very well have your entire arsenal at your disposal with no inconvenience at all) in which reloads, or back up guns or high capacity saved the life, or the lack thereof cost the life, of the defender.
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Just off the top of my head, the TX Courthouse incident, someone with a CHL emptied his 1911, didn't have a reload, and was then killed by the gunman. I'm sure Glen knows the details, we should get him in here.
 
Pete's right...

Howwie said:
"I just wanted to see how many people on here think they need a backup weapon. (by weapon I mean another firearm not knife) I personally don't own a gun that I would want as a backup, but should I look into getting one? or just stick to the G19 with an extra mag or 2?"
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it's a personal decision. What is 'right' for other guys may not be right for you.

But in general, its helpful to remember two things - especially if you are a civilian rather than an LEO:

1. A gunfight is a "come as you are" proposition. Whatever you have on you at the instant is all you'll have available.

2. Anything that might determine whether you live or die, it may be wise to carry two of. Things just don't always go the way you rehearsed them.


While it may not be entirely accurate to use a law enforcement combat encounter to illustrate points made to civilian CCW holders, some timeless lessons may still be learned from the April 11, 1986 FBI Miami firefight:

  • 2 FBI agents lost their primary revolvers when their vehicle crashed into another;

  • 1 FBI agent (Dove) had his firearm struck by a round and disabled;

  • 1 FBI agent could not reload his primary revolver because he had been wounded, and blood/tissue etc. impeded his loading loose rounds into the cylinder while under fire


Never been in a real gunfight, but worked with many LEOs in training environments. I've seen guys trip and fall over obstacles both inside buildings and outside, dropping their handguns as they fell...sometimes dropping them off elevated surfaces, parking garages, or other non-recoverable locations such as stairwells or ladders.

You have a preconceived notion of how it will go down, but that doesn't mean that its always going to go down that way.

http://www.thegunzone.com/11april86.html

Whatever floats your boat.

Just remember that any real-world encounter you may find yourself involved in will essentially be "on-the-job training".

You likely won't have been in a real gunfight previously, and you may never be in another (one way or the other). Be prepared to give it your best shot.

No pun intended...

;)
 
Do you plan to use your primary when you are out? I have a spare tire because I plan to drive my car, the car comes with it, and because flat tires are a common occurence. I've had several flat tires over my life, but I've not been in a situation where I had to shoot. That's why I would carry a single gun, for that unexpected situation. Call me naive, bit I think if I unexpectedly end up in the situation where my life depends on having a BUG, then the good Lord has other plans for me anyway:). Carry what you want but I can't see it's needed.

You might want to also consider carrying a second car insurance policy, just in case your primary insurance carrier goes bankrupt the same day you have an accident.;)
 
Just off the top of my head, the TX Courthouse incident, someone with a CHL emptied his 1911, didn't have a reload, and was then killed by the gunman. I'm sure Glen knows the details, we should get him in here.
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Wilson still had four rounds in his gun when he was killed.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-29447950_ITM


This is an example for making head shots when your at close range and behind an unaware active shooter but it's not a case for carry capacity.
 
Since when is two guns an 'arsenal'?

If my friend asks me, "Should I carry a back-up?"

I will answer .... America, [frack]-yeah!
 
Say what you want this is my daily carry I had to kill a local gangbanger and will not go down from his homies.

DSCF1056.jpg
 
This is the old risk cut/off argument. Mags, more guns, knives, OC - etc.

The official bat utility belt should be:

1. Flashlight and small backup - like a Photon light
2. Two knives - one on each side - why because you use them as escape tools from grappling and you don't which hand is free.
3. One primary gun with two mags.
4. Bug - reload for that optional
5. OC Spray for force continuum fun
6. Cell phone

Actually it's not that hard to carry this load. But it depends how I feel.

At Tyler, Chris Byrd's analysis was that Wilson made tactical mistakes in engaging the seemingly downed shooter. I might not have this correct but Wilson came around the truck after the shooter was down - but not out and got shot. Should have hunkered down or pied the truck. Guess, if this was correct, the poor Guy felt righteous and not cautious.

When did I use a Bug - only in FOF (thanks!). I was a terrorist and an officer shot me in the arm, so I decided I should abandon my long arm to be fair. So I dropped it and said - you shot me - and gave up. When he came out from cover, I drew an airsoft pistol and shot him the head (face plate) - with my weak hand side.
 
In considering how many and what kind of weapons to carry or have with me in the car, at home, or whatever, I've come face to face with the possibility that I could lose, no matter how well I had prepared.
A Glock 19 with just one mag, loaded with any of the mainstream HP's is a serious deterrent. We have covered this nine thousand bazillion times. The majority of gunfights occur within 7 yards, where 3 shots or less are fired in under 4 seconds. Please read that over again, nine thousand bazillion times.
 
So load three rounds in your gun, put on your seven yard blinders, and stop shooting after 4 seconds, if your not already out. :)
 
Like I said, I carry a BUG on duty, occasionally off duty. I have it for that SHTF/worst case scenario moment, whether it's because my primary fails, I lose it, or I am in a psoition that I cannot access it. My BUG is a j-frame with CT laser grips and takes moonclips. It always works, I can access it with either hand, reload it with one hand, and put rounds on target with either hand even if I can't line up the sights. Plus, I don't have to worry about limpwristing it, bad mags, dropping the mag, being out of battery, double feeds, stove pipes FTF's, FTE's, or any of the other issues that autos may experience.

Carrying one has nothing to do with the capacity or reliability of modern semi-autos, it's about that one time when something horrible happens and you have to stay in the fight and finish it.

Remember, two is one and one is none.
 
I like to carry a backup bug (LCP) in my left front pocket. Not only for backup but for some situations it is tactically more advantageous in certain situations to my strong side carry. If ever I am approched by or see anyone funny looking I can have my hands in my pockets and my hand on my gun prepared and no one is the wiser.

Its not only about backup but options as well.
 
I go home and hang out with some friends from my early days

about twice a year and the other day I was thinking about how many pistols I might could pack on my person the next time I go...just to mess with them. Like Mel Gibson in the last Road Warier film when they make him disarm.

I think I'm up to seven.
 
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