IDAHO83501
New member
Put down the whiskey, you need a nap !!
Dear jgcoastie: Your last line sums up all that is above it...
Dear jgcoastie: Your last line sums up all that is above it...
Anyone else dislike .270 Win & .300 Magnums??
- Thread starter jgcoastie
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That is funny, I like the .270, I actually like a 300 win mag more but to each his own. I personally do not care for a 7mm mag but would not put enough energy into actually hating one, or demeaning someone who is of the opinion that it is a great cartridge :barf: :barf: :barf: (even though they would be wrong). Just kidding don't castrate me.
precision_shooter
New member
I don't dislike either round. I tend to walk the other way when I hear people start preaching that one or the other is the "best" because.... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but, if you heard it once, you've heard it a thousand times....
I dont use either cartridge...For the game I hunt, and at the ranges I hunt at, neither of those cartridges gives me any more versatility than my .308...
I dont use either cartridge...For the game I hunt, and at the ranges I hunt at, neither of those cartridges gives me any more versatility than my .308...
Rifleman1776
New member
Dislike? Strong word.
Personally, I have no use for the .270. Same with many of the 30-06 'wannabe' calibers. e.g. .260, .280, etc. For the most part they are simply marketing gimmiks.
None will do what a 30-06 can do and the '06 can do everything they can do. Why look further?
I don't have or have a need for a .300 mag. But it is an immensely popular cartridge for heavier game like moose, kodiak bears, etc. And it does beat the 30-06 in long range energy and velocities. It has it's place.
This is an old-old campfire discussion topic. Can we say 'redundant' boys and girls?
Personally, I have no use for the .270. Same with many of the 30-06 'wannabe' calibers. e.g. .260, .280, etc. For the most part they are simply marketing gimmiks.
None will do what a 30-06 can do and the '06 can do everything they can do. Why look further?
I don't have or have a need for a .300 mag. But it is an immensely popular cartridge for heavier game like moose, kodiak bears, etc. And it does beat the 30-06 in long range energy and velocities. It has it's place.
This is an old-old campfire discussion topic. Can we say 'redundant' boys and girls?
My daughters (the 12 and 14 yo ones) notice, and the deer the 14 yo put in the freezer in November is very real. Really tasty.
If you don't know your rifle pretty well, you don't have any business shooting at live game......
Really, though, the .270 launching a 130 gr boat-tail @ 3,100 f/sec is cheating a bit: zeroed for 3.5" high at 100 yards, there is no hold over out to 400 yards, where you have but 10" of drop: put the crosshair at the top of his back with the vertical at the back edge of his leg, and squeeze...... dead deer.
With a .270, you have 1/4 mile effective range, if you do your part.
...
Um..... either you doubt that I live "in the real world of hunting" ..... or ......
...... you mean it......
I'll assume the latter, because I think I'd be sad, too, if I had to pass on shots beyond 300 yards because my equipment, my self, or both, was not up to the task.
L_Killkenny
New member
Hey, I'm gonna admit that I didn't read any of the responces or even the OP for that matter. I saw the title and had to jump in with a big PLUS ONE!.
.270's are like butts, everyone has one. The same reason why I always liked the Olds Cutlass' and disliked Camaros. Not only that but it and any of the .30/06 based cartridges were surpased decades ago in performance vs. recoil vs action type vs. cost.
As for a .30 mags or larger..........what a complete waste of thought for 99.9% of U.S. shooters and hunters. Just love the threads where someone posts "I'm thinkin about getting a (insert caliber here) magnum to hunt deer, do you thinks it's too big?" Well duh.......
LK
.270's are like butts, everyone has one. The same reason why I always liked the Olds Cutlass' and disliked Camaros. Not only that but it and any of the .30/06 based cartridges were surpased decades ago in performance vs. recoil vs action type vs. cost.
As for a .30 mags or larger..........what a complete waste of thought for 99.9% of U.S. shooters and hunters. Just love the threads where someone posts "I'm thinkin about getting a (insert caliber here) magnum to hunt deer, do you thinks it's too big?" Well duh.......
LK
I've been shooting the .270 for 45 years, starting with the custom FN Mauser my father got while on assignment in Germany in 1951. That fine rifle sadly got stolen by some miscreant but I "replaced" it later with a "cheapie" (K-Mart special I'd guess) black syn stocked Win 70 with Simmoms 3x9. Amazingly it too was/is an absolute tack driver. So, yes, I've drunk the kool-aid and like it. I've also had a Ruger 77 '06 that was a fine rifle, and at some point plan to get a Win 70 Featherweight in 7mm-08, "just because" and I like the idea of a short actioned (but not WSM) .270 (ok, .280) "mountain rifle." I also have always admired the .257 Roberts. They're all good, some "better" than others," but I'll stand the .270 against most. It is one of those instances where the hype is justified. I will also admit much of that "love" in my particular case--as in how I came to know and respect the .270 as much as I do--stems originally from my family history. Others can say the same about the '06, etc.
A few I don't have much use for: I shot a friend's 7mm Mag for awhile and never warmed to it. I'll take a .270 or '06 any day. I also don't see much use for the .25-06. As for the .243, it's ok but does nothing the 7mm-08 can't do better and more and on bigger, with not enough more shoulder push to count or couldn't easily get used to--but all of the .308 family are winners. But I understand others that do like these other cartridges for their own reasons, just not my cups of tea.
A few I don't have much use for: I shot a friend's 7mm Mag for awhile and never warmed to it. I'll take a .270 or '06 any day. I also don't see much use for the .25-06. As for the .243, it's ok but does nothing the 7mm-08 can't do better and more and on bigger, with not enough more shoulder push to count or couldn't easily get used to--but all of the .308 family are winners. But I understand others that do like these other cartridges for their own reasons, just not my cups of tea.
Saltydog235
New member
Hate? No, I just have no use for it. Growing up, my father was a 30'06 believer and I became one too, heck he wouldn't even look at a .308 because of his allegiance. We owned quite a few .270's over the years and they just sat there, heck I couldn't tell you the last time I even shot a 270 or if there still one in the vault.
I looked at it later when I branched out from the standpoint of bullet selection, trajectory, velocity etc and couldn't see very much difference between it and the .284/7mm class other than the latter had a much better bullet selection so I went with that and have numerous 284/7mm class rifles and tend to enjoy them immensely.
The 300 Win Mag hasn't ever been a choice for me. I had a .300Wby at one point in time and that thing cured me of ever wanting another. Not for the recoil but for the muzzle blast and expense of shooting it in comparison to other rifles that I have. The power was awesome and devastation total. I just out grew the need to burn a half pound of powder on every trigger pull.
Now I prefer calibers that I can enjoy shooting and still have my 7mm Mags for those one of these days Elk hunts. And I just ordered a Savage 10 Precision Carbine this morning, I'm sure dad will visit me in my sleep over that one too.
I looked at it later when I branched out from the standpoint of bullet selection, trajectory, velocity etc and couldn't see very much difference between it and the .284/7mm class other than the latter had a much better bullet selection so I went with that and have numerous 284/7mm class rifles and tend to enjoy them immensely.
The 300 Win Mag hasn't ever been a choice for me. I had a .300Wby at one point in time and that thing cured me of ever wanting another. Not for the recoil but for the muzzle blast and expense of shooting it in comparison to other rifles that I have. The power was awesome and devastation total. I just out grew the need to burn a half pound of powder on every trigger pull.
Now I prefer calibers that I can enjoy shooting and still have my 7mm Mags for those one of these days Elk hunts. And I just ordered a Savage 10 Precision Carbine this morning, I'm sure dad will visit me in my sleep over that one too.
Show me.
Show me a cartridge that delevers less recoil with better ballistics (less drop and more energy at 400 yards in readily available guns/actions at lower or equal cost.
It ain't there.
7mm Mag is more expensive and really inefficient compared to the .270 WIN.
All the 7's need a heavier bullet (more recoil or lower velocity) to get a decent BC......
6.5 bullets come closest, but are harder to find and more expensive ... and with 140gr (the sleekest readily avilable), muzzle velocity is not stellar in most chamberings...... there are better specialty bullets, but then the cost jumps....
gaseousclay
New member
fair point. similar responses came up when I was researching my first rifle, but at the end of the day I decided on the .270 win because I felt it best suited the hunting I want to do. I didn't even know who Jack O'Connor was until after I bought my rifle. the truth is, I wouldn't mind owning several calibers to round things out. I figure a different cartridge for different situations will make you a good hunter
Saltydog235
New member
I'll have to check again on the BC thing but a little while back I was comparing them in the Ballistic Tips and the difference in the .277 150grn and the .284 150grn was something like .002 for the BC, hardly enough to make a difference. You're talking about 2 bullets with .007" difference in diameter, there just isn't too much spread from .277 to .284 on any level to definitively claim one is better than the other. The only big difference is the availability of bullets and weights and even that is shrinking.
Also the arguement that you have make a 7mm fire a heavier bullet isn't quite right. The .280 and .270 are virtually twins with only a hairs difference between the two. Does that deer really care which one just blew its heart out? Heck you can make the 7mm-08 shoot right with the .270. My loads actually Chronoed higher than a buddy's .270 factory rounds. Now the 7mm Mag I shoot loads about 7 or 8 grains more powder and uses a Magnum primer, those are the only differences in the cost of the components which is a cent or two per round.
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I don't know about Ballistic Tips.... the difference in the BC of .277 and .284 Sierra Game Kings is .047 ..... about an inch at 400 yards .... not much, but some.
And that is still not the optimum bullet for .270 trajectory at 400: that would be the 130 gr.
The sleekest commonly available .277 bullets are 150's but they don't outdo the 130's till you are past 400 ...... and they add recoil.
I'm admittedly biased, but am 100% positive the terminal ballistics are far better with that wee little .007" more. I saw this many years ago while visiting the silhouette range. If the performance of the .277 sectional density could be improved, we wouldn't be witnessing the failure of yet another new (6.8) round today, would we? Anyway, with today's ammo the .30-06 can do what most .300's can do with the new Superformance ammo. The .270 goes from varmint to grizzly in only 50 grs. The 7's go from 90 to 175 in standard loads, and performance matches them accordingly. In the Superformance line, a short action 7-08 now rivals the performance of the magnum. We'll see abaout that. Barrel length is always somehow left out of the equation
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L_Killkenny
New member
Come on Jimbob. You can like the .30/06 based cartridges, you can say they do what you need and you can even think they have style. What you can't believe is that they are the best designed, most efficient cartridges in their perspective classes. It just isn't so. Compared to the .308 based cartridges the ought six based cartridges use about 25% more powder to get a 5-6% gain in performance AT THE MOST (100-200 fps). To get that extra 5-6% you need longer barrels and longer actions and you get more recoil. And that's only compared to the .308 based rounds, they are far from cutting edge. Then when you get to accuracy how many of the ought six based cartridges are winning matches today or in the last 30-40 years for that matter.
I'll stick with my .243s, .260's, 7mm-08s and .308s and send the .25-06, .270 and .30-06 to the old folks home where they belong.
LK
I'll stick with my .243s, .260's, 7mm-08s and .308s and send the .25-06, .270 and .30-06 to the old folks home where they belong.
LK
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FrankenMauser
New member
With all your insults to '06 based cartridges, for being inefficient.... You sure have forgotten about that .243 Win.
If you're going to let the inefficient, out-dated cartridges go to the retirement home, you need to pack the .243's bags, as well. In the land of 6mm cartridges, the .243 Win is equivalent to a .300 Weatherby Mag, and the 6mm Remington is a .30-378 Weatherby. It doesn't matter that the .243 was based on the .308. It's still horribly inefficient, outdated, and was designed with inferior components in mind.
You're comparing apples to watermelons. The .277" bore size traditionally uses shorter (and lighter) bullets than those typically found in the 6.5mm and 7mm bore sizes (for competition). If proper bullets were readily available, you'd see more .277" competition. Compounding the issue, is that the .270 Win's overall length limits the use of long bullets in anything but a single-shot rifle. If you can't load the competition ammunition in your rifle, you can't really use it...
Since the .270 Win is the bread and butter of the .277" bullet market, there isn't much use in creating long, super-efficient, match-grade bullet designs. ...Which is why there are nearly zero good bullets available for such applications; and why the 6.8 is floundering. Almost no one stepped up to create new bullets for the 6.8. Old designs, built for the .270 Win were employed, and are often not appropriate or efficient enough.
The .270 Win is a cartridge for hunters. It can be made to do other things, but its specialty is hunting.
Until a major manufacturer upsets the .277" market with a short/fat "mini-magnum", of roughly .257 Roberts case capacity, the status quo will remain. Nearly all .277" components will revolve around the .270 Win, and a hunting market. Only when a new, truly amazing .277" cartridge is introduced, will there be a reason for proper, super-efficient bullets to be brought to the market.
...Which is a good argument in favor of "The .270 Win sucks". As long as the cartridge has one-sided support, essentially only for hunting, it is not a good jack-of-all-trades.
But, my .270 will remain my go-to rifle. Like Crankylove, my .270 is "old reliable". It goes on every hunt, for all big game (and varmints). I may have other things I plan on using for that hunt, but I can ALWAYS fall back to the .270 to get the job done - and done well. This year, I'll be hunting Antelope with a .243 that is currently being built, but the .270 will be patiently waiting for yet another shot at ever-lasting glory.
Come on......
....I'm still waiting:
Show me a cartridge, with guns and ammo readily readily available on the shelf, that will have a flatter trajectory to 400 yards, delivering the same amount of energy or more, with equal or less recoil, as inexpensively as the .270 WIN launching a 130 grain boat tailed soft point @ 3,100 f/sec.
There are a great many that could do one or two of those better, but not all of them. And none of them are as available or as inexpensive in a store.
Longer barrels and actions = more weight*, which mitigates recoil..... and the greatest effect on recoil is the weight of the bullet being launched. The greatest effect on percieved recoil is the weight of the gun.
Superformance is available for the .270, too ...... spendy stuff. But if you are going to compare apples to apples, the .270 WIN Superformance stuff beats the the 7-08 Superformance stuff in all the things i mentioned above, including price (by just a few cents)
Hell, my handloads beat the 7-08 Superformance stuff, at less than 1/2 the price.....
Berger makes a very nice line of .277 VLD bullets ..... for hunting...... betcha they'd kill paper, too.
It works. For deer to 400 yards there is none better, IMO. It will do just fine for p-dogs to elk, too, with the right bullets and powder. True, there are more efficient cartridges to punch paper with.... but I am not real interested in that.
Maybe PETA would hate this cartrige, but those of us who hunt ought to appreciate it's qualities.
*...... once upon a time, in a country where budgets were balanced and if you did not work, you did not eat, men carried rifles and did not complain that they were so heavy at 7 or 8 pounds..... but then again, they were made of tougher stuff than most folks here ..... and it could not be said that 1/3 of them were morbidly obese, either...... maybe it would be a good thing if all of us would get off our ATV's, and add some weight to our rifles, and walk the earth a bit .....
....I'm still waiting:
Show me a cartridge, with guns and ammo readily readily available on the shelf, that will have a flatter trajectory to 400 yards, delivering the same amount of energy or more, with equal or less recoil, as inexpensively as the .270 WIN launching a 130 grain boat tailed soft point @ 3,100 f/sec.
There are a great many that could do one or two of those better, but not all of them. And none of them are as available or as inexpensive in a store.
Longer barrels and actions = more weight*, which mitigates recoil..... and the greatest effect on recoil is the weight of the bullet being launched. The greatest effect on percieved recoil is the weight of the gun.
Superformance is available for the .270, too ...... spendy stuff. But if you are going to compare apples to apples, the .270 WIN Superformance stuff beats the the 7-08 Superformance stuff in all the things i mentioned above, including price (by just a few cents)
Hell, my handloads beat the 7-08 Superformance stuff, at less than 1/2 the price.....
Berger makes a very nice line of .277 VLD bullets ..... for hunting...... betcha they'd kill paper, too.
It works. For deer to 400 yards there is none better, IMO. It will do just fine for p-dogs to elk, too, with the right bullets and powder. True, there are more efficient cartridges to punch paper with.... but I am not real interested in that.
Maybe PETA would hate this cartrige, but those of us who hunt ought to appreciate it's qualities.
*...... once upon a time, in a country where budgets were balanced and if you did not work, you did not eat, men carried rifles and did not complain that they were so heavy at 7 or 8 pounds..... but then again, they were made of tougher stuff than most folks here ..... and it could not be said that 1/3 of them were morbidly obese, either...... maybe it would be a good thing if all of us would get off our ATV's, and add some weight to our rifles, and walk the earth a bit .....
Clifford L. Hughes
New member
Clifford L. Hughes
Jgcoastie:
To each his own said the old lady when she kissed the cow. I have rifles built on .308 Winchester sized cases, built on the 30/06 size cases and built on the .338 mag. sized cases. And yes, I shoot a .375 H&H mag.
Semper Fi.
Gunnery Sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
Jgcoastie:
To each his own said the old lady when she kissed the cow. I have rifles built on .308 Winchester sized cases, built on the 30/06 size cases and built on the .338 mag. sized cases. And yes, I shoot a .375 H&H mag.
Semper Fi.
Gunnery Sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
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