Any time , any place (Philly Bus Shooting)
- Thread starter mete
- Start date
Chad, We have the luxury of knowing the outcome. Monday morning quarterbacking so to speak. A man armed with an AK-47 and what appears to be a 30 round mag has 30 chances to get lucky and get you while you lay on the floor. At the time of attack we would not have the knowledge that this thug was only going to fire a few rounds at the windows.
youngunz4life
New member
I sort of catch Chad's drift though
like I said in an earlier post though, you'd better hit your target or your in a world of hurt. You midas well charge and empty your chamber as you reach him because this guy would've killed someone or some people(in my opinion) if he had been fired upon. From a bus as he is firing on you doesn't seem very easy and charging seems out of the question. All that you can really do at that point is take cover, and you are right: you can get hit lying down(I wouldn't be surprised if some of those bullets landed low). He was gone as he finished firing and/or was vacating the scene while still firing.
like I said in an earlier post though, you'd better hit your target or your in a world of hurt. You midas well charge and empty your chamber as you reach him because this guy would've killed someone or some people(in my opinion) if he had been fired upon. From a bus as he is firing on you doesn't seem very easy and charging seems out of the question. All that you can really do at that point is take cover, and you are right: you can get hit lying down(I wouldn't be surprised if some of those bullets landed low). He was gone as he finished firing and/or was vacating the scene while still firing.
baddarryl, no kidding - I tend to carry full capacity weapons as a matter of choice, and this just confirms it.
Everything in my life, from fighting to sports (sorry, no military experience), confirms this. If you're going, go hard and go fast. I doubt in this scenario, from what I can see, I would fire unless I had a very clear shot at either one of these savages. This really reinforces the point about what's behind your target. Unless you happened to be seated right by the back door, there are too many passengers and passersby to start throwing rounds down range.
Everything in my life, from fighting to sports (sorry, no military experience), confirms this. If you're going, go hard and go fast. I doubt in this scenario, from what I can see, I would fire unless I had a very clear shot at either one of these savages. This really reinforces the point about what's behind your target. Unless you happened to be seated right by the back door, there are too many passengers and passersby to start throwing rounds down range.
These guys are cowards. If someone shot back at them they would scurry away like the rats that they are. These are the people that only hunt in packs. Put these guys on a battlefield and they'd be crying for their mommy.
I don't understand those that wouldn't return fire. You need to react strongly and quickly. Otherwise you are a sitting duck, at the mercy of a savage with about 15 brain cells.
I don't understand those that wouldn't return fire. You need to react strongly and quickly. Otherwise you are a sitting duck, at the mercy of a savage with about 15 brain cells.
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The armed individuals attempting to commit cold blooded murder are no threat to bystanders but you would be if you tried to put a stop to it.?
I've heard the same reasoning from those who are opposed to arming teachers. They might accidentally hit a student when aiming at the gunment who's shooting students on purpose. We just can't take the chance.
If it's not you they're trying to kill then you have the option not to intervene from a tactical standpoint. But I don't know that you'd be safer letting them walk up to you hiding behind a seat and letting them decide if you live or die once the shooting starts. Hope none of us have to make that choice.
Don't know unless I'm there, but maybe dropping a couple of thugs as they come down the aisle (also know as the funnel of death) might be a tactic to consider.
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"thug culture"
I don't think that we are expected to "accept" thug culture. These incidents are across the spectrum of society. For example, the three teenagers in Fla. Opened fire in the bank, shot at police officers, and are on the run. Point is you need to be prepared wherever you are, be that in the ghetto or trailer park or the mall or public transportation. These events are not exclusive to one culture or geographic area.
I don't think that we are expected to "accept" thug culture. These incidents are across the spectrum of society. For example, the three teenagers in Fla. Opened fire in the bank, shot at police officers, and are on the run. Point is you need to be prepared wherever you are, be that in the ghetto or trailer park or the mall or public transportation. These events are not exclusive to one culture or geographic area.
TexasJustice7
New member
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I almost fell out of my chair laughing, first at the guy who threatened to turn the woman in for child abuse then at how she basically called a hit down on this bus. This crazy world we live in never stops amazing me.
From a CCW/SD standpoint that is really a no win situation. I do not know how thick your typical bus window is, I can assume that it is a bit thicker than a standard car window. That means you would probably best be packing something like a .357 or 10MM to engage someone accurately on the other side. Even if you were packing a 10MM or .357 I would be worried as hell about hitting anyone innocent inside the bus or outside on the street.
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I think if I would have returned fire, if I had a shot to take out a couple of them, because they very easily could have killed a number of people on the bus, by pure luck, none on the bus were killed. First thing is I would never have been in PA, never have been on the bus. But if someone is shooting a me an others, I think if you have a gun and a permit, and have a chance to stop the attackers you have to take the shot IMO. Now if they were only threatening to shoot someone inside, I would sit it out if I could but once the shooting started I would have been returning fire if at all possible. I don't think a 38 Spl would penetrate the glass, and even my 44 Spl rounds might be deflected, same with a 45. Otherwise, the criminals can always choose a place to attack people where nobody can do anything about it. Suppose 20 people on the bus where hit, how would the permit holder feel, if he had not returned fire?
I almost fell out of my chair laughing, first at the guy who threatened to turn the woman in for child abuse then at how she basically called a hit down on this bus. This crazy world we live in never stops amazing me.
From a CCW/SD standpoint that is really a no win situation. I do not know how thick your typical bus window is, I can assume that it is a bit thicker than a standard car window. That means you would probably best be packing something like a .357 or 10MM to engage someone accurately on the other side. Even if you were packing a 10MM or .357 I would be worried as hell about hitting anyone innocent inside the bus or outside on the street.
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I think if I would have returned fire, if I had a shot to take out a couple of them, because they very easily could have killed a number of people on the bus, by pure luck, none on the bus were killed. First thing is I would never have been in PA, never have been on the bus. But if someone is shooting a me an others, I think if you have a gun and a permit, and have a chance to stop the attackers you have to take the shot IMO. Now if they were only threatening to shoot someone inside, I would sit it out if I could but once the shooting started I would have been returning fire if at all possible. I don't think a 38 Spl would penetrate the glass, and even my 44 Spl rounds might be deflected, same with a 45. Otherwise, the criminals can always choose a place to attack people where nobody can do anything about it. Suppose 20 people on the bus where hit, how would the permit holder feel, if he had not returned fire?
Stressfire
New member
Where the heck did he hide that AK?
Towards the end of the video, it almost looks like he's about to shove it down a pant leg...I found myself hoping he forgot the safety and AD-ed himself in the junk
But seriously, a hiding a Draco I get, but a full size AK47? (minus stock, that is)
Towards the end of the video, it almost looks like he's about to shove it down a pant leg...I found myself hoping he forgot the safety and AD-ed himself in the junk
But seriously, a hiding a Draco I get, but a full size AK47? (minus stock, that is)
This is progressive thinking. It also takes into consideration the outcome via hindsight.
During the event we don't know that noone was going to be injured or that the badguys were only going to fire a few shots.
Knowing this information makes it easy to say that intervention would have increases the danger to innocents. Either way its ALL on the badguy. We have a right and duty to defend ourselves and family.
I'm quite certain that buses have shatter-proof glass. Also, a bus is rather thin-skinned and if that was indeed a 7.62X39mm one gunman was carrying, the rounds would have easily penetrated the bus body.
I see this as a shoot situation if they enter the bus because you don't know the gunmen's intentions in invading the bus. But, my response would not be through windows and bus bodies if possible. But, #2, you must engage these guys before they know they're in a gunbattle. Once that AK-47 is leveled at you and you're still holstered, it's too late.
I see this as a shoot situation if they enter the bus because you don't know the gunmen's intentions in invading the bus. But, my response would not be through windows and bus bodies if possible. But, #2, you must engage these guys before they know they're in a gunbattle. Once that AK-47 is leveled at you and you're still holstered, it's too late.
TylerD45ACP
New member
Its really hard to say what you would do unless its happening to you in the moment. Think about a negative situation where you did something and second guessed your choice 1000+ times after and different things you could of done to avoid it. That is basically what we are doing here only we weren't forced to choose in the moment. When you think back its easy to say why didnt I do this, I should have done that. In the moment its not so easy, especially if life and death is involved, imo.
Whats this "we" stuff?
I think a light is starting to come on.
Does it really matter if they are or arent, if youve already given up?
Absolutely. And thats why we take advantage of things like this, and the opportunity to work these things out beforehand, so you dont have to do it on the bus if it should happen to you. Nothing has to be specific, and the possibilities are endless and on going. Its an easy mental exercise, and you can, and should be doing it everyday as "possible" things present themselves in your daily life.
Learning to think on your feet is a handy skill to cultivate too. Its amazing how many people go into vapor lock over the slightest little thing. You have to learn to make decisions and act on them. The more you do it, the easier it gets.
First and foremost, you have to give yourself permission to act without asking anyone else for approval. Get that out of the way right off. If you cant do that, might as well put the gun back in the safe.
TylerD45ACP
New member
I agree, mental excercises like this can be very useful. Being able to think on your feet is definitley a good skill to have.