Anti-gun does not = automatic Leftist.

@CC: What Wildalaska said. Also, as a liberal I also have access to liberal friends, who I encourage to try shooting. Some have. I also try to dispel myths about guns...both gun-related crime as well as their functions and features. Most people don't know much about them, and what they do know (often learned from movies and videogames) is wrong.

I do so without ever resorting to words/phrases like "DemoRATS," "Hildebeast," or "cold, dead hands." Those are real turnoffs for a vast majority of the population, and they're less likely to listen after any of them.

I also try to be a generally inclusive guy...I hang out with a variety of people, from Christians to Athiests to Muslims...from Democrats to Republicans, from white to black to Mexican. All while trying to respect them as people and do my best not to exclude them...provided they don't try to stick their nose into my business or the business of others.

In other words, I try to present an example of somebody who can be inclusive of a wide range of people, hold "progressive" liberal views, and still be an outspoken firearms enthusiast. In other words, I do my best to dispel the angry white redneck stereotype by example. I try to present firearms rights not as a Republican/Democrat issue, or a Right/Left issue, but as a Constitution/America issue.

If this means I'm unfortunately less inclusive of angry white rednecks...well, so be it. They are a minority, and as I said before tolerance of intolerance is not always a virtue.
 
Okay... Instead of complaining, what are you going to do about it (who you view as bigoted neanderthals being the majority of pro-2nd folks), or what do you expect others who agree with you to do?

This is what you really need to think about. I would be very interested in what you have to say.

Directed at WA and JC.
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Even though I wasn't included I'm still going to respond. :p I plan on doing what I'm already doing. I'm going to keep trying to convince conservatives that gays are not evil and harmful to them and trying to convince liberals that guns are not evil and harmful to them. I do this at work, at school, at social gatherings and on the internet. If some folks don't want to hear these opinions then I won't force it on them but if they're willing to engage in debate I relish the opportunity.
 
Let's reiterate the point of this thread:

It is fine to disagree. It doesn't help to criticize "leftists" and "liberals".

Why?

Because part of the point of this SITE is to educate and rationally bring on board people of differing viewpoints. The second you attack someone for being a "leftist" you turn off 5 people who now see you as a nutjob. Not all leftists are anti-gun. Making the mistake of lumping them all in one category HURTS THE CAUSE (namely gun rights).

People are coming here that don't necessarily HAVE an opinion yet on gun control, and if we are positing that we should be educating the unwashed masses, it doesn't help to insult them first!

JimPeel had a post yesterday with a link to YouTube that was a video explaining the difference between semi-auto and auto / assault weapons. Best thing I've ever seen on this forum.
 
In other words, I do my best to dispel the angry white redneck stereotype by example. I try to present firearms rights not as a Republican/Democrat issue, or a Right/Left issue, but as a Constitution/America issue.
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mORE BRAVO!


WildincludedontexcludeAlaska
 
People are coming here that don't necessarily HAVE an opinion yet on gun control, and if we are positing that we should be educating the unwashed masses, it doesn't help to insult them first!
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Seriously. Never assume that everybody walks through the door here is a serious firearms enthusiast (heck, I'm not sure I qualify based on collection...though my 2A stance certainly does). I found this site on a random google search looking for accessories for one of my pistols. You think Joe Blow (who may even be a DemoRAT) who just bought his first handgun for self-defense but who has hardly formed an opinion on assault weapons is going to be convinced after peeking his head in here?

He might be convinced...but it might not be kind you're looking for.

Luckily for me my time in the military cured me of my evil liberal views...at least regarding firearms. Had I come in here with no opinion formed, the outcome might not have been positive.

If some folks don't want to hear these opinions then I won't force it on them but if they're willing to engage in debate I relish the opportunity.
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Seriously, I think I ought to point out that these aren't the type of conversations I bring up and push in the cafeteria, on the shooting range, or in most other real-life situations. I engage, respectfully, when appropriate. However, in a forum labeled "legal and political" I assume that everybody here is up for some level of political debate and that I don't necessarily need to leave the gloves on.
 
What do we need to do?

Simple: People are people. Every legitimate citizen wakes up, breathes, poops, eats, pays their taxes (mostly) and just wants to live their lives. I honestly dont care if they are transgendered, gay, lez, communist leaning, black, white, latino, jewish, wiccan as long as they stay out of MY life. We cannot reject folks because of what they say or do in their personal life. We need to INCLUDE, not EXCLUDE.

ya want political correctness, bigotry, hatred and all the rest of the screeching...let the lefties do it.

You beleive in gun ownership as an essential part of freedom? If you do, then let folks be free. Your personal sexual morality should take second place.
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Meh... Best of luck convincing people. Really :)
 
Whats this we have to appeal to the masses? 2005 stats show around 80 million legal gun owners living in the US. Now, I don't know of many who become an owner then decide to go the other way. The numbers are growing, I think were reaching the masses just fine.
 
You know what? The problem is there are a lot of people on this board that have lived on a gov. program. (WIC, Medicaid, Medicare, Food stamps and etc) but they don't like demos. So what are you, if not for demos. most of these programs would not exist.
People need to educate their minds before the indicate their mouths. These people have no clue and probably never will. No one person in a party shares the exact same ideals as every one else.
Some people need to read the whole story instead of clips from CNN. Get up and take an economics class and maybe some history. If this country was moving more to the left then I would make as much as a doctor because we all know communism was built on the fact that all are equal in everything.
 
Whats this we have to appeal to the masses? 2005 stats show around 80 million legal gun owners living in the US. Now, I don't know of many who become an owner then decide to go the other way. The numbers are growing, I think were reaching the masses just fine.
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80 million legal gun owners...but how many actually favor anything beyond ownership of a pistol and maybe a hunting rifle or shotgun? How many are opposed to limits on number of purchases, waiting periods, etc? I think many of us here favor much less restricted firearms ownership than the "average" gunowner. Maybe I'm wrong.

I mean heck, Dianne Feinstein is one of those 80 million, right? Do you count her among our numbers?
 
Let's reiterate the point of this thread:

It is fine to disagree. It doesn't help to criticize "leftists" and "liberals".

Why?

Because part of the point of this SITE is to educate and rationally bring on board people of differing viewpoints. The second you attack someone for being a "leftist" you turn off 5 people who now see you as a nutjob. Not all leftists are anti-gun. Making the mistake of lumping them all in one category HURTS THE CAUSE (namely gun rights).

People are coming here that don't necessarily HAVE an opinion yet on gun control, and if we are positing that we should be educating the unwashed masses, it doesn't help to insult them first!

JimPeel had a post yesterday with a link to YouTube that was a video explaining the difference between semi-auto and auto / assault weapons. Best thing I've ever seen on this forum.
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I say bravo to this post. When I joined this site it was because I was looking for a place where I could LEARN about firearms and the care/use/history of this these firearms. Also when I joined, I wasn't entirely clear minded about my stance on gun control. Then I began READING other peoples views/opinions/discussions on the matter on this site which lead me to look up other outside sources to try to find some actual FACTS on the matter. Only then did I cement my views on the matter. Which for as little Govt. interventionism on gun control/use.

And as I said; I am pretty sure that conservative/republican folks would consider myself of being a "liberal". And that's OK with me really. It doesn't affect me at all. But some people take things too far with the name calling/bunching up people into categories. I have many friends who were, from the get go, completely for absolute gun control, mainly because of the examples that pro 2nd amendment put out on the media, where they honestly (to someone that hasn't gone either way on the matter) just freak people out with the us against you type of thinking. But once I had a serious CONVERSATION on the matter with them showing them some of the facts of the matter, with some time they came to understand the issue more clearly and to actually partially or fully change their minds.

And this is from my personal experience on the matter which is not much. I started on this shooting hobby/lifestyle mostly alone and now I have 4 of my closest friends go with me to the range that as I said before, were against gun rights. If the core of the NRA/pro2ndammendment/conservative people would be just a little more open to other peoples views, the number of people for gun rights would even more than it currently is. I am a living example of this.
 
80 million legal gun owners...but how many actually favor anything beyond ownership of a pistol and maybe a hunting rifle or shotgun? How many are opposed to limits on number of purchases, waiting periods, etc? I think many of us here favor much less restricted firearms ownership than the "average" gunowner. Maybe I'm wrong.

I mean heck, Dianne Feinstein is one of those 80 million, right? Do you count her among our numbers?
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I think the NRA is around 40 million? So I guess atleast half.

If the core of the NRA/pro2ndammendment/conservative people would be just a little more open to other peoples views, the number of people for gun rights would even more than it currently is. I am a living example of this.
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What other views are you talking about? Gay rights? Abortion? Whats this have to do with firearms if so?
 
...I think it's absurd that both sides can't just get along and let people live their own lives, as long as they aren't actively harming another person or infringing upon their respective rights. Shouldn't it just be as simple as that?
 
...I think it's absurd that both sides can't just get along and let people live their own lives, as long as they aren't actively harming another person or infringing upon their respective rights. Shouldn't it just be as simple as that?
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Well, once you start talking politics, both sides have a clear case for complaining that the other side is affecting them, their rights, etc.
 
Knee jerk rhetoric is disgusting, lets talk about guns, shooting, hunting, reloading, 'yote hunting, the yearly quest for venison, geese and etc. I can't cure the world's ills and neither can the bleeding hearts.
 
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