An Open Letter To The CEO of Levi Strauss & Co.

Maybe I missed something but it appears that the OP was concerned that the Levi corporation may have fabricated a story to justify asking citizens not to bring firearms into their stores. Given the rabid zeal that anti gun groups/individuals exhibit it could be a legitimate concern.

I wrote off Levi's on moral issues decades ago.
 
The Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment applied to business and private clubs as well as to government bodies.

Seems like if one amendment applies universally, then they all should...

Well, if the SC RULED that all amendment applied accordingly, then maybe it would, but they didn't and it doesn't.

Considering that Levis were originally made for the gold rush prospectors, they seem to have strayed far from their roots.

Well if Levis based their business on gold rush prospectors, they would have gone out of business a long time ago. To stay in business, companies much adapt. Levis has. There just aren't enough gold rush prospectors around to keep them in business anymore.

But what do i know. Being free to post their crap is one thing, but they should be sued everytime this policy endangers a customer or employee.

Hmmmm, how would you show that the banning of guns has endangered people? You would think the mega-lawyers at the NRA would have worked out such a simple angle by now, but for some legal reasons, they have not.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
Hmmmm, how would you show that the banning of guns has endangered people? You would think the mega-lawyers at the NRA would have worked out such a simple angle by now, but for some legal reasons, they have not.

Gun free zones = human hunting preserves for psychopaths
 
When private entities don't want guns on property under their control, I respect it.
I also found during the election that many of these corporations are willing to loose customers to promote their agenda. I wrote and complained to a couple of business that had engaged in open political discrimination and the response was a harsh "we don't care" and wordy admonishment these weren't gun related, but very eye opening. One was a fine tobacco online retailer. I was shocked about a company such as this exerting political pressure on its CUSTOMERS and telling them they don't care if they loose them.
Numerous companies are doing this, not just isolated incidents. Since gun rights are associated with a particular party, we will begin seeing this more often,
 
Truth is important. Levi's hasn't banned guns. They have asked their customers not to bring guns into their stores. That's a different thing from saying that you can't. They also didn't make it a "Gun Free Zone".

Im confused.
OK.

If somebody legally asks me not to exercise my rights,

Is there an illegal way to ask that? Also they just asked that you not bring a gun into their store. They did not ask anyone not to exercise their rights. They have not threatened anyone. They have not said they would ban anyone. They in fact have no way to check if you have a gun or not. They have asked folks not to bring their pieces into the store and if you do don't shoot yourself, or anyone else, in the backside.

...i should be happy with that, keep funding their message by buying their products????
What anyone is happy with is their own business. Levi's message seems to be that if I wear their jeans, magically, I'll look sexy and young forever. That's it, near as I can tell. Yeah if you buy their stuff you do fund that message whether you're sexy and young or old and crotchety.

Oh yea and i can feel free to comply or not comply as the law allows??? Is that the message here?

Levi's has asked people not to bring guns into their stores. You are free to comply with that or not "as the law allows". That's true of a lot of things. They can also ask you to leave their stores "as the law allows". Here though no law is involved, just a request.

Levy's doesn't decide on state or local or national laws. Some places don't allow open carry. Some don't allow many CCW permits. Some countries don't allow for legal carry so yeah "as the law allows" applies.

tipoc
 
Maybe I missed something but it appears that the OP was concerned that the Levi corporation may have fabricated a story to justify asking citizens not to bring firearms into their stores. Given the rabid zeal that anti gun groups/individuals exhibit it could be a legitimate concern.

He's provided no evidence of a fabrication so its a moot point...
 
I think its funny how everytime a company asks their customers to not bring their guns, gun owners respond like its a prohibition. Its even more ironic when the only reason they are asking, is because of the irresponsible behaviors of a gun owner. We should be talking about gun safety and training related to CCW.
 
Koda94 said:
I think its funny how everytime a company asks their customers to not bring their guns, gun owners respond like its a prohibition.

So if a company asks you not to bring guns to their store, they won't ask you to leave if they see you bring a gun?

Koda94 said:
Its even more ironic when the only reason they are asking, is because of the irresponsible behaviors of a gun owner. We should be talking about gun safety and training related to CCW.

Accidents with cars in the parking lots of companies isn't uncommon. Do you think companies will ask people not to bring their cars because of the accidents with them on their property? Safety is at least as important regarding vehicles as it is with many other things, including guns.
 
So if a company asks you not to bring guns to their store, they won't ask you to leave if they see you bring a gun?

If you have an opinion to say, say it. Don't fish around like a teenager asking for a first kiss.

Sort of cowardly of the CEO to cave in to an astro-turf organization.

What organization? Or which organization did they cave to? How was that? Do you have a source for this?

tipoc
 
Accidents with cars in the parking lots of companies isn't uncommon. Do you think companies will ask people not to bring their cars because of the accidents with them on their property? Safety is at least as important regarding vehicles as it is with many other things, including guns.

Im also not certain what your point is with this question either. Its not even a close comparison to the topic, nobodys trying to ban cars even if Levis owned the parking lot.

The topic here should really be gun safety while shopping, then maybe someone new to CCW can learn what to do with their gun when trying on jeans... Like keep it in its holster.
 
A person in charge of a property is required to provide an environment free from recognized hazards. It is a duty to remove the hazards if possible, guns are a recognized hazard, so guess what? Guns are easy to handle; just don't allow them and you can move on to the other 3000 issues to handle.
Safety is king now, safety will win.
 
Gun free zones = human hunting preserves for psychopaths

GFZs have absolutely no monopoly on this.

Hmmmm, how would you show that the banning of guns has endangered people?
I would just use Chicago as an example.

That would actually be a really poor example given the number of places with much higher per capita violent crime and murder rates than Chicago, cities WHERE GUNS ARE NOT BANNED. Since guns are largely banned in NY, I added it as well.

Here are the murder, rape, robbery, assault rates per 1000 people...
US Average .04 .37 1.02 2.32
Chicago, IL .15 .50 3.61 4.61
NY, NY .03 .24 1.95 3.35
Baton Rouge, LA .23 .34 3.76 5.02
Houston, TX .11 .37 4.58 4.84
St. Louis, MO .50 .88 4.92 10.56
Albuquerque, NM .05 1.03 2.49 5.71
Phoenix, AZ .07 .65 1.95 3.04

So your example city of banning guns being more dangerous seems to not actually be true at all. Plenty of places are more dangerous that do allow guns. The bad place in this little list is St. Louis, MO. Baton Rouge, LA is pretty bad by comparison as well.
 
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That's really too bad! I've been wearing and enjoying Levis since I was about 10 years old, when they used to be made in the US. If Levis really is involved with the Antis and restricting carry rights, then I suppose I need to try some different blue jeans. Carhartt makes some decent jeans - do they support gun rights?
 
You requested “… people not to bring firearms into our stores, offices or facilities, even in states where it’s permitted by law.” You cited an incident to support this policy by saying “Recently, we had an incident in one of our stores where a gun inadvertently went off, injuring the customer who was carrying it.”

Numerous internet sleuths, myself included, have been unable to uncover a single incident of a negligent discharge of a weapon in any Levi’s store, anywhere. Outside of reports of an 18 year old who negligently shot himself in his thigh while exiting his truck, parked in a mall parking lot in Augusta, GA, there are no police reports, news stories, or anecdotal evidence which points to the incident referenced by yourself to have actually happened.

Koda94
You are right the OP offered no evidence of a fabrication, he reported a lack of evidence of any reported event. I am not arguing his point just pointing out his argument. As to why people respond the way they do to stories like this, I'm guessing it's due to the 2nd amendment being attacked from just about every direction and feeling a need to fight back in what ever way possible.

While I agree that the Levi Corp has the right to set limits regarding behavior in their stores I also have to right to align myself with company's and corporations that are inline with my values and convictions. As I stated earlier, I wrote off Levi's decades ago over moral issues.

Anyway, I'm finished with this thread and hope I have not offended anyone.
 
As to why people respond the way they do to stories like this, I'm guessing it's due to the 2nd amendment being attacked from just about every direction and feeling a need to fight back in what ever way possible.

There is that, but there is also the subliminal insult, common to ALL minority groups who are ALL painted with the same broad brush due to the actions of a few.

All of us have the natural right to arms. Sadly, there are more than a few people who are not capable of being safe and responsible with arms.

The correct way to deal with this is to allow everyone their natural rights, and when/if certain individuals PROOVE themselves dangerously irresponsible, then THOSE people (and only those people) should have their rights restricted under due process of law.

However, that method is expensive. It is expensive in terms of time, effort, money, and suffering.

It's much, much cheaper and easier to pass gun control laws and CLAIM they work. Doing so is a degree of prior restraint on our natural rights, and is also assuming everyone is guilty without proof.

Levi (or whomever) ASKS us ALL not to bring our weapons onto their places of business. I don't have an issue with that, its their place, their rules, just as in my place, my rules. If I don't like it, I don't go there. If you don't like mine, don't visit me. Simple, and respectful.

Do note that our Constitutional rights are a matter between us, as citizens and our government. Not between us as citizens and other citizens. With the government, its something established and written. Disputes are resolved by the courts.

Between citizens (or citizens and a corporation), it is a matter of negotiation, mutual accommodation and respect (to some degree or other).

If you want someone to blame for no guns policies at businesses, (other than those directly owned by anti gun zealots) look to the insurance companies, the courts, and those idiots with gun who do stupidly irresponsible acts.
 
First no one has presented evidence that an "astro turf" anti gun group is behind the request not to bring guns into Levi's. What group and when? Is there an article citing this?

There is no ban on guns at Levis. Levi's has stores or factories or warehouses in 110 countries. No doubt many of those countries ban weapons from private citizens. Levi's ain't responsible for that in those cases. As the CEOs letter explains the request that folks not bring guns into the store is not based on a single incident in Ga. It's become a global matter. An issue of security.

Write a letter to them.

It is common these days for fellas who are confronted by an inconvenience to start hollering (whining actually) about their rights. There is a difference between an inconvenience and the systematic denial of a right (which I'm betting most here have never actually seen). This is an inconvenience at most. You choose to go or not go to their store. In any case they have not said they are trying for a ban. They can't force you to do anything. The government can. But this ain't that.

The same persons who are outraged about Levis asking that you not bring a gun into their stores, bow the knee when their bosses have a "No Guns at Work" rule. They keep mum on it and go to work each day. They don't quit or boycott despite their rights being trampled. They don't demand that the boss insure them personally against an attack at work. You show up at work with a piece and they see it...you can cry all you want from outside the gate.

Levi's does not have the power to deny you your rights. Unless you work for them, then they do. Not just the 2nd but a few others as well.

tipoc
 
Im curious what those that are thinking that Levis "asking" us to not bring guns in the store the same as saying they are "anti-gun" would do if one of their house guests had an ND inside their home? As a second amendment supporter how would you handle that?
 
I was once in line waiting to check out an a guy a couple of people in front of me had a negligent discharge onto the tile floor. Didn't hurt anyone. Pocket pistol kinda guy I guess. The cops let him off with a warning he had a Texas chl So, these things do happen.
 
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