Even as a really young guy, my eye sight is nothing to brag about. A 1 inch circle at 25 yards even is a little bit of a chore for me. I have learned a lot about shooting through this rifle, both in shooting technique and firearm saftey and would not trade that up for anything.
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- Thread starter TheScout
- Start date
Hey TheScout,
I have a Ruger 10/22 I got back in the late 60's. I have to say that I've shot that .22 more than anything else I've ever owned. Thousands and thousands (and thousands) of shells through that thing. I didn't know back then that it had a really bad, squishy trigger pull. Didn't matter, I still got pretty good with it. I also had lots and lots of opportunities to shoot in those days, and I most always had that .22 with me, just like every other kid I ran with back then had their's; NEVER enough .22 shells, though. I learned to shoot with that rifle, and through the years learned about good triggers and better shooting results (and form) as time passed.
I'd say that if your trigger is anywhere near as bad as my "new" Daisy that I really haven't tried yet, and you're shooting offhand as you say, you're not too shabby. I think much of your frustration would go away shooting something with a good trigger pull. If you haven't experienced shooting anything with a proper pull, then your shooting world will change once you do (IMO). Keep shooting the Daisy if it's all you have to shoot regularly, but get out there with your two Marlin .22s whenever you can. It's a wonderful time to buy .22 shells, too...
BTW, I still have that .22, and a few years ago I installed a Volquartsen trigger kit in it, and for 35 bucks, it's a new rifle, and still amazingly accurate after all these years (and shells). And, you mentioned your Arisaka; Norma probably makes ammo for it. I got my first deer with a 7.7 back in the very early 70's. Norma made ammo for it then, and I'll bet they still do (check the site below) for yours, too.
Keep shooting; maybe try a light leather glove on that Daisy trigger. (?) Good luck!
reinert
www.norma-ammunition.com
I have a Ruger 10/22 I got back in the late 60's. I have to say that I've shot that .22 more than anything else I've ever owned. Thousands and thousands (and thousands) of shells through that thing. I didn't know back then that it had a really bad, squishy trigger pull. Didn't matter, I still got pretty good with it. I also had lots and lots of opportunities to shoot in those days, and I most always had that .22 with me, just like every other kid I ran with back then had their's; NEVER enough .22 shells, though. I learned to shoot with that rifle, and through the years learned about good triggers and better shooting results (and form) as time passed.
I'd say that if your trigger is anywhere near as bad as my "new" Daisy that I really haven't tried yet, and you're shooting offhand as you say, you're not too shabby. I think much of your frustration would go away shooting something with a good trigger pull. If you haven't experienced shooting anything with a proper pull, then your shooting world will change once you do (IMO). Keep shooting the Daisy if it's all you have to shoot regularly, but get out there with your two Marlin .22s whenever you can. It's a wonderful time to buy .22 shells, too...
BTW, I still have that .22, and a few years ago I installed a Volquartsen trigger kit in it, and for 35 bucks, it's a new rifle, and still amazingly accurate after all these years (and shells). And, you mentioned your Arisaka; Norma probably makes ammo for it. I got my first deer with a 7.7 back in the very early 70's. Norma made ammo for it then, and I'll bet they still do (check the site below) for yours, too.
Keep shooting; maybe try a light leather glove on that Daisy trigger. (?) Good luck!
reinert
www.norma-ammunition.com
Thank you @reinert I really want more range time and will start to allocate that soon. I’ve already tried the .22 trigger a couple times (dry firing with snap caps/empty shells of course). And the trigger does feel way more comfortable and lighter than the Daisy. I can’t wait to see how I do with it. I’ve only tried it out once before at a quick session at the range.
spacemanspiff
New member
I wouldn't worry too much about how that air rifle shoots. Practicing with it, as long as you are abiding by good habits such as breath control, sight alignment, and trigger manipulation, will make a difference when you shoot your firearms.
I have had both a bb and pellet pump rifle, the bb rifle couldn't get accurate no matter what, but it could hit a soda can sized target out to probably 15 yards.
The pellet rifle was a little better and much more fun to shoot. Back when I lived at a place that had a very large yard, I had set up hanging targets to shoot at off the deck, about 20-25 yards out. I used a plastic water bottle, filled it to the top, first with airsoft bbs (airsoft sucks! haha), then cornmeal to fill out the empty spaces, followed by some water so the cornmeal would be thick. Wrapped the bottle with a few layers of duct tape and strung it from a tree. It was heavy enough to not sway with the wind, but hits from the pellet would be easy to notice as it would swing just a bit.
Then I noticed the squirrel population in the neighborhood was getting out of control. If the squirrels were within 10 yards, it was effective. Past that, and all the pellet would do is bounce off their fur. But I could still get hits on them, well past 25 yards, not quite 50 though.
I have had both a bb and pellet pump rifle, the bb rifle couldn't get accurate no matter what, but it could hit a soda can sized target out to probably 15 yards.
The pellet rifle was a little better and much more fun to shoot. Back when I lived at a place that had a very large yard, I had set up hanging targets to shoot at off the deck, about 20-25 yards out. I used a plastic water bottle, filled it to the top, first with airsoft bbs (airsoft sucks! haha), then cornmeal to fill out the empty spaces, followed by some water so the cornmeal would be thick. Wrapped the bottle with a few layers of duct tape and strung it from a tree. It was heavy enough to not sway with the wind, but hits from the pellet would be easy to notice as it would swing just a bit.
Then I noticed the squirrel population in the neighborhood was getting out of control. If the squirrels were within 10 yards, it was effective. Past that, and all the pellet would do is bounce off their fur. But I could still get hits on them, well past 25 yards, not quite 50 though.
reynolds357
New member
What is that air rifle capable of?
You mention you have a Marlin model 60 and a Glenfield model 25? I would buy some good quality ammo like CCI high velocity and go to the range and shoot over some sand bags at 25 and 50 yards. Those are both normally very accurate rifles. If you have some bad shooting habits those guns will show it up. I bet with good rifles and and solid rest your shooting is much better than you think and what you are getting off hand with a cheap air rifle.
And welcome to the forum. Its always nice to see young person taking an interest in shooting.
And welcome to the forum. Its always nice to see young person taking an interest in shooting.
Scout,
Keep working on your fundamentals. Air rifles are a great way to learn and keep your skills sharp no matter what your experience level.
We had always had one to shoot in the team room in Army.
The one you are using is not really a precision rifle so you can only be as accurate as your equipment. Does not mean it won't work but a better rifle will give you better results which means you can seperate the inaccuracies of the rifle from bad habits of the shooter, LOL.
I own an Avanti 853 that was Canadian Army surplus. Several Armies in the world teach their soldiers the fundamentals on air guns.
https://www.airgundepot.com/daisy-avanti-853c.html
The Civilian Marksmanship Program offers the same rifle made under license by Daisy for 100 bucks or so.
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/air-rifles/sporter-air-rifles/
Give them a call.
Keep working on your fundamentals. Air rifles are a great way to learn and keep your skills sharp no matter what your experience level.
We had always had one to shoot in the team room in Army.
The one you are using is not really a precision rifle so you can only be as accurate as your equipment. Does not mean it won't work but a better rifle will give you better results which means you can seperate the inaccuracies of the rifle from bad habits of the shooter, LOL.
I own an Avanti 853 that was Canadian Army surplus. Several Armies in the world teach their soldiers the fundamentals on air guns.
https://www.airgundepot.com/daisy-avanti-853c.html
The Civilian Marksmanship Program offers the same rifle made under license by Daisy for 100 bucks or so.
DAISY M853 .177 CAL. (PNEUMATIC) USED AIR RIFLE
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/air-rifles/sporter-air-rifles/
Give them a call.
Thank you all for your replies. I'm really looking forward to getting to the range soon. I too have heard very good things about the Marlin 60 and Glenfield 25. Usually I get as much proficiency with irons as I can get, then thrown on a scope and scoot the targets out (That's just how I do things).
After reading what I have on this thread, I won't expect too much out of my air rifle anymore.
I am curious, does accuracy in a rifle deteriorate over time? Does something change with the rifle that just reduces it's accuracy?
After reading what I have on this thread, I won't expect too much out of my air rifle anymore.
I am curious, does accuracy in a rifle deteriorate over time? Does something change with the rifle that just reduces it's accuracy?
I am curious, does accuracy in a rifle deteriorate over time? Does something change with the rifle that just reduces it's accuracy?
You can wear out the barrel or damage the crown. It takes quite a while to wear out a barrel and most civilians will not ever see it happen.
There are several factors that limit the accuracy of our shooting.
1. Limitations of the weapon
2. Limitations of the Ammunition
3. Environmental Factors
4. Limitations of the shooter
Firearms have an inherent accuracy. For example, most infantry weapons are up to 8 MOA accurate with the average being ~2.5MOA.
A Minute of Angle is defined as 1 inch at 100 yards...2 Inches at 200 yards...3 inches at 300 yards so on and so forth.
So a 2.5 MOA weapon can only put a bullet in a 2.5 inch circle at 100 yards. That is as accurate as it can get.
Sniper weapons and high quality firearms designed for maximum accuracy can be as little as 1/4 MOA.
Ammunition also has an inherent accuracy defined in MOA. Variations in bullet weight, powder charge, and bullet design effect the accuracy. Match Ammunition for example has the lowest variation due to stricter quality control and is therefore more accurate. Bullet weight and barrel harmonics also combine to effect ammunition accuracy for individual weapon designs. For example, a G3 battle rifle tends to be more accurate with 150 grain bullet than it does 175 grain match because it was engineered to shoot the standard infantry ball ammunition. Weapons are engineered around a specific design ammunition. That does not mean you cannot shoot any ammunition of the same caliber, it just means when they did the math, the harmonics were optimized for specific forces and the closer your ammunition is to those forces...the more inherent accuracy to a point. That is why some "recipes" of bullet weight and charge are more accurate than others in a given firearm.
The environment affects accuracy. Temperature, humidity, and wind all affect the burn rate of the charge, peak pressure, flight time, and flight path of the bullet. Heat causes things to expand and cold to contract. A cold bore will have a different point of impact from a hot bore. Even target perspective can affect accuracy. Shooting uphill vs shooting downhill will change your zero. If you zero on a cold day then our zero will change on a hot day. It does not change much but it does change and the extremes require a sight adjustment. The biggest environmental effect is wind. Wind will push a bullet significantly off point of aim. Learning to read the wind and account for its effects on your bullets flight path is an essential skill for a long range shooter. It is a mark of skill.
The most important factor we can influence is the shooter. The fundamentals of shooting become very important and the shooters ability to apply them determines just how much of the inherent accuracy of our equipment we can squeeze out.
Breath control - shoot at the natural pause in your breathing cycle or at least when no air is moving in or out of your lungs. Breathing causes the rib cage to expand moving your firearm off the intended point of aim.
Relaxing - Do not muscle the weapon and shoot from a natural point of aim.
Aim - Proper sight picture and sight alignment. Front sight post in focus when the firearm discharges and follow thru establishing one shot with two sight pictures.
Squeeze - pretend the trigger is a button or a needle going straight thru your body that you must push thru it without any side movement. It doesn't matter where you place your finger on the trigger so long as when squeeze...it is straight back. Proper trigger control and reset skills.
So you can see that mastering all of this is both a fun and lifelong process! Most importantly, relax and have fun!
Shooting soft lead pellets or lead bullets in a powder burning rifle you will probably never wear one out. You will do more damage with improper or incorrect cleaning than shooting. You are lucky if you live long enough or can afford enough ammo to wear out a gun.
Long ago there was a Remington ad for the then new Nylon 66 and they shot 70,000 rounds of 22 through the barrel and it still measure "as new". So don't worry about it.
Long ago there was a Remington ad for the then new Nylon 66 and they shot 70,000 rounds of 22 through the barrel and it still measure "as new". So don't worry about it.
If you can get your trigger pull to about 3 Lb you will see your groups get smaller the trigger pull on any gun is one of the reason that people can not shoot a good group I have about changed all of my long guns to 3 Lb up to 4 LB I have 2 hand guns that have 3 Lb pull they are ones that I shoot the best with GOOD LUCK
I think you're doing ok. I'm not familiar with the air gun you have, but unless you have a higher end one, they are going to be limited in accuracy and range. As long as you know the limits, they can still be good tools for learning. I shoot my kids 1 pump Red Ryder on occasion in the back yard. It's only good for about 10 yards,if that, but it's still fun and still makes for good practice. I also have a cheap plastic Taurus 92 airsoft pistol that is accurate enough within 5-7 yards for some fun plinking. I grew up with a 10 pump Crossman bb/pellet gun that I always felt was like a sniper rifle. I'm sure it was a little better than the current plinkers, but in reality, not much.
I'll bet you'll do much better with those 22's. I think you're doing pretty good if you're shooting offhand. Try shooting off a rest or bag on a bench. Also, keep in mind there can be some variance in the accuracy results from different 22 ammos. You'll have to find the one that shoots best in your rifles. My Marlin does really well with Blazer. My groups open up a little with Remington Thunderbolt, but they're still respectable. Those are both relatively inexpensive bulk 22.
I'll bet you'll do much better with those 22's. I think you're doing pretty good if you're shooting offhand. Try shooting off a rest or bag on a bench. Also, keep in mind there can be some variance in the accuracy results from different 22 ammos. You'll have to find the one that shoots best in your rifles. My Marlin does really well with Blazer. My groups open up a little with Remington Thunderbolt, but they're still respectable. Those are both relatively inexpensive bulk 22.
Thank you all for your replies. I’ve been reading up more oand watching videos on precision shooting, and it’s really interesting stuff. I can see why they say “Easy to pick up, impossible to master”. For the .22Lr, what range should my targets be at for practice? Is 50yrds enough or should I push em out to 100 or 150 yards?
Start at 25 to verify your scope is on target. Then move to 50 yards. Shooting at 100 yards can be an eye opener. Some ammo depending on consistency will group well and some will be all over the target. I like a 50 yard zero. You will be just a little high at 25 and just a little low at 75 yards and depending on the ammo between 4 and 6 inches low at 100 yards.
What ratshooter said. And also, just as a suggestion, start out with your .22 as you've been shooting your pellet rifle, shooting offhand at 25 yds., and compare your results on target. Do some shooting from a good rest, too, and wring out your best groups to see what your Marlins will actually do downrange from that rest position. Then move out farther as you progress, rested and offhand. I like CCI standard vels for rifle ammo. And have fun!
Since you said you don't get much range time, I'm assuming you're shooting at home, possibly outside. I have 2 suggestions:
1. I practice with a Daisy 953, the cheapest version of 753/853/953 family from Daisy. Very accurate pellet rifles, for 10 meter training. I practice with mine @ 15 yards in my basement. If I have a bad shot, it's all me, no way I can blame the rifle, wind, etc.
2. I also have a .22 springer air rifle that I can usually get 2" offhand groups at 50 yards if I hold it right (springers are hold sensitive). I'm fortunate to be able to have about a 65 yard trail out my back door that I can practice on. If I try to go past 50 yards with that springer, accuracy just falls apart. That may be because of the rifle, pellets or me. I also have a couple .22 LR rifles, a Marlin 60 & a Sears 36 (old bolt action), that I've recently started shooting CCI Quiet .22 LR that's actually quieter than my springer. The only downside to the at-home .22LR is the cost and the TWUNK! those rounds make on my bullet trap.
Lastly, you should check out the Appleseed Project for training:
https://appleseedinfo.org/schedulemap/
1. I practice with a Daisy 953, the cheapest version of 753/853/953 family from Daisy. Very accurate pellet rifles, for 10 meter training. I practice with mine @ 15 yards in my basement. If I have a bad shot, it's all me, no way I can blame the rifle, wind, etc.
2. I also have a .22 springer air rifle that I can usually get 2" offhand groups at 50 yards if I hold it right (springers are hold sensitive). I'm fortunate to be able to have about a 65 yard trail out my back door that I can practice on. If I try to go past 50 yards with that springer, accuracy just falls apart. That may be because of the rifle, pellets or me. I also have a couple .22 LR rifles, a Marlin 60 & a Sears 36 (old bolt action), that I've recently started shooting CCI Quiet .22 LR that's actually quieter than my springer. The only downside to the at-home .22LR is the cost and the TWUNK! those rounds make on my bullet trap.
Lastly, you should check out the Appleseed Project for training:
https://appleseedinfo.org/schedulemap/
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Not necessarily. I think you may have already touched the pinnacle of success. The only thing you have left to achieve? is the sharpening of your shooting skills >through experience.but after 3 years, I thought I should be better than that shouldn't I?
Grouping of shots at rest and then again when standing is do able. But requires a whole lot of concentration and above average eye sight.
However you targeting paper at 25 yrds & having some grouping accuracy. That friend is no doubt a genuine achievement.
Keep on shooting what you have irregardless of what you currently shoot.
A word or two from a old shooter. _"Never give up the shooting sports or its associate hobbies."
BTW: nice of you stopping by to join us FLF members. ~~Appreciated.
I like 50yards with the 22 irons and glass. 100 yard with the 22/glass usually off a bag/bench. 25 yards with irons or to get close adjusting scope. My glass is cheap and not fancy, but affective for me.
If you are permitted at your range, pin up clay pigeons on the target board. My club uses thick foam insulation board on wooden frames for the target boards. The members are permitted paper/cardboard targets and clays. The clays are easy to see a hit at 50yds and sometimes will survive a couple hits. Much fun and super cheap @ $6-$10 for around 100 clay targets. I also like paper plates with a sticker in middle or a marker dot it's 7-8" round, cheap, ez to see target for 25-100yd shooting.
If you are permitted at your range, pin up clay pigeons on the target board. My club uses thick foam insulation board on wooden frames for the target boards. The members are permitted paper/cardboard targets and clays. The clays are easy to see a hit at 50yds and sometimes will survive a couple hits. Much fun and super cheap @ $6-$10 for around 100 clay targets. I also like paper plates with a sticker in middle or a marker dot it's 7-8" round, cheap, ez to see target for 25-100yd shooting.