Allright whos going to man up...
- Thread starter CobrayCommando
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loggerhead
Moderator
Hunting hogs under a feeder? All you need is a 22LR between the eyes, hog will drop in his tracks and the bullet will wind up in his neck.
If you really want an exciting hunt do it with dogs. My crowd uses dogs to find and bay the hog. Up until recently a couple of the hunters would take the hog down, rest of the group would catch and hold dogs while the two catchers tie the hog up and load him on a four wheeler. The hog is then disposed of by either, butchering him, relocate him or selling him. More recently the conservation department has innitiated restrictive regulations on trasporting them, they have to be dead. Since this time we usually do him in with a knife, for a really big one, say over 200 # we will shoot him assuming that we can do it with out hitting one of the dogs. We use what ever gun someone happens to have at the moment as most of us do not carry on the hunt. We never use an arrow as the braod head might pennetrate the hog and cut up the dogs as the hog continues to fight.
A lot of hogs are taken during deer season from shooting houses and climbers by deer hunters. Any weapon capable of killing a deer will also kill a hog.
If you really want an exciting hunt do it with dogs. My crowd uses dogs to find and bay the hog. Up until recently a couple of the hunters would take the hog down, rest of the group would catch and hold dogs while the two catchers tie the hog up and load him on a four wheeler. The hog is then disposed of by either, butchering him, relocate him or selling him. More recently the conservation department has innitiated restrictive regulations on trasporting them, they have to be dead. Since this time we usually do him in with a knife, for a really big one, say over 200 # we will shoot him assuming that we can do it with out hitting one of the dogs. We use what ever gun someone happens to have at the moment as most of us do not carry on the hunt. We never use an arrow as the braod head might pennetrate the hog and cut up the dogs as the hog continues to fight.
A lot of hogs are taken during deer season from shooting houses and climbers by deer hunters. Any weapon capable of killing a deer will also kill a hog.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Aw, javelulus are fun. Ease up and grab a baby piggie and they all run off except Mama. She pops her jaws and gets all upset. Piggie squeals and wiggles. Set him down, and away they go.
I took Long Path down into Long Draw one evening, trying to catch him a Bambi. Just before dark, I heard noises from behind me, upwind. About 20 pigelinas. They came feeding by, and a momma and baby came around until she caught my scent. She walked up to within six or eight feet, going through the dangdest nose-wrinkling gyrations and breathing as deeply as she could, trying to figure out what was this strange new thing. She left, and another came and went through the same deal. It was all I could do not to move and hee-haw with a bunch of raucous laughter.
Stuff like that is what makes outdoor doings so much fun.
, Art
I took Long Path down into Long Draw one evening, trying to catch him a Bambi. Just before dark, I heard noises from behind me, upwind. About 20 pigelinas. They came feeding by, and a momma and baby came around until she caught my scent. She walked up to within six or eight feet, going through the dangdest nose-wrinkling gyrations and breathing as deeply as she could, trying to figure out what was this strange new thing. She left, and another came and went through the same deal. It was all I could do not to move and hee-haw with a bunch of raucous laughter.
Stuff like that is what makes outdoor doings so much fun.
, ArtSunny was an Australian red heeler cross. I know that the bitch was pure bred heeler.
I suspect the sire was either a spotted hyena or a badger.
Sunny met an untimely demise after I got married. He killed three of the brides cats.
Can't really see the problem in that, can you?
He broke out of his yard one day and made a bee-line into the neighbors yard, a deputy sheriff, in fact the K-9 unit for the county. Sunny made short work of the highly trained police dog. That cost me big time. The older Sunny got the more aggressive he became. I was the only person whom he respected or could control him. I had a strict rule that he wasn’t allowed in the house but he was smart and sneaky as a cat.
The final straw came when I walked into the bedroom and found him staring intently into the crib where my newborn daughter was peacefully sleeping , talk about getting a case of the chills.
It would have been very similar to having found Charles Manson staring into your bedroom window! And I handled it accordingly.
I, or I should say, my sweet young bride killed him.
Desert Fox,
I can tell you this for certain. I will not run dogs on javalina purposely. Those little suckers are way more dangerous to a dog than any feral hog I've ever witnessed.
I compare the two like this. A big feral hog is fighter but there isn't much he can't back down with bad language and a sour expression. kind of like a big ole tatted up biker dude. He is used to getting his way through intimidation and will only really fight when pressed.
A javalina is small in stature and lives amongst some of the keenest predators in the Americas, Lions, Bobcats and such and is small enough to be considered easy prey. A javalina is the real deal and they know how to fight. Kind of like that quiet 140Lb guy sitting at the back of the bar with the wall to his back and that "1000 yard" stare. Small, fast and quick to cut you if you get in his face.
If you know what I mean.
I do not recommend shooting any hog between the eyes (the forehead). I know of this failing on two seperate occasions. Once was a .22LR and an inexperianced hunter. The pig shook his head and trotted off. No blood, no dead pig. Pig was spotted later doing fine.
On another occasion, a large boar was caught with dogs and tied. The hog was rather pissed and it was decided that it would be better to shoot him now instead of later at camp. The hog was shot in the forehead with a .38 special. The hog appeared dead. Once at camp the hog ties were removed and the hog was dropped from the swamp buggy to the ground. Upon hitting the ground, the hog jumped up and ran off, never to be seen again.
A hog's brain lays behind the eyes. Also a hogs skull is flat. So if he is facing you and you shoot him in "lump" above his eyes that is nothing more than muscle and fat it will often knock out a pig for a while.
To make a head on, no down angle brain shot on a hog you have to shoot him in nose right square between the nostrils.
From the side you need to aim just behind and level with the eye.
Boddington wrote about having a .38 special fail to penetrate on a hog's skull as well. I would suspect that it's less of a penetration problem and more of a glancing problem after looking at a hog skull.
To make a head on, no down angle brain shot on a hog you have to shoot him in nose right square between the nostrils.
From the side you need to aim just behind and level with the eye.
Boddington wrote about having a .38 special fail to penetrate on a hog's skull as well. I would suspect that it's less of a penetration problem and more of a glancing problem after looking at a hog skull.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
Is a hogs heart located several inches above and slightly behind the front leg? Is it protected by a sheath of shoulder bone?
I've seen "autopsy" photos but its hard to discern whats what from them due to the blood and whatnot.
I've seen "autopsy" photos but its hard to discern whats what from them due to the blood and whatnot.
A hogs heart is further forward than a deer, as are it's lungs.
The heart lays between the shoulders. On a perfect broadside hog if you line up with the front leg on the horizontal plain and keep your bullet in the lower third of the body in the vertical plain you should hit pay dirt.
If you shoot right behind the shoulder you get the back of lungs. I've also noticed that this can vary a bit from hog to hog depending on it's genetic background. But you can't go wrong aiming for the "basketball' between the shoulder from any angle on any hog.
On a large boar they can have as much as three inches of hardened cartilage plate over the entire thoracic region. This plate is so thick and hard on SOME hogs that I've seen them totally expand the best premium bullets from heavy caliber rifle before the bullet even gets through the "shield".
While I've never had a large caliber bullet stopped in the on side shield I've seen them stop bullet on the off side many times. I've seen them stop .375H&H's shooting Nosler 300gr PT's,Barnes X, and Swift A-frames. I've seen them stop various 250gr .338's and more often than not they'll stop a .30cal bullets of any dimension.
NOTE,
This is on a LARGE boar hog 300+ Lbs. Smaller, or younger hogs generally will not stop these high testosterone rounds.
I've never seen a hog stop any .416 or larger round with the exception of the .45-70 they will more often than not stop a .45-70 shooting Remington 405gr soft points and especially if they are cooked up to over 1800fps. That velocity is just to much for that bullet design to hold together.
The heart lays between the shoulders. On a perfect broadside hog if you line up with the front leg on the horizontal plain and keep your bullet in the lower third of the body in the vertical plain you should hit pay dirt.
If you shoot right behind the shoulder you get the back of lungs. I've also noticed that this can vary a bit from hog to hog depending on it's genetic background. But you can't go wrong aiming for the "basketball' between the shoulder from any angle on any hog.
On a large boar they can have as much as three inches of hardened cartilage plate over the entire thoracic region. This plate is so thick and hard on SOME hogs that I've seen them totally expand the best premium bullets from heavy caliber rifle before the bullet even gets through the "shield".
While I've never had a large caliber bullet stopped in the on side shield I've seen them stop bullet on the off side many times. I've seen them stop .375H&H's shooting Nosler 300gr PT's,Barnes X, and Swift A-frames. I've seen them stop various 250gr .338's and more often than not they'll stop a .30cal bullets of any dimension.
NOTE,
This is on a LARGE boar hog 300+ Lbs. Smaller, or younger hogs generally will not stop these high testosterone rounds.
I've never seen a hog stop any .416 or larger round with the exception of the .45-70 they will more often than not stop a .45-70 shooting Remington 405gr soft points and especially if they are cooked up to over 1800fps. That velocity is just to much for that bullet design to hold together.
loggerhead
Moderator
.
Man, I don;t know what kind of hogs you have been shooting but here is a couple pictures of the skull of a 360# boar. Note that the brain cavity is above and behind the eye sockets. Also, there is nothing covering the bone in this area except the skin and hair. A shot between the nostrils would probaly travel through his mouth and hit the spinal cord having the same affect as a brain shot.
I have seen many large hogs killed with a single shot from a .22, even with shorts. Admittedly the .22 is not the desired weapon for serios hog hunting. A good 30 caliber is what you need.
loggerhead
Moderator
Sorry about that. Don;t know what happened to the pic, the attachment window said that it was attaching the pic. I will try again laterl.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
Fascinating, thanks for the reply. So in fact if one were to go hunting in areas where encountering one of these beasts was possible it would be wise to load a few solids in the rifle, and if you happen to not see one and shoot a smaller animal just load a softy on top of those to shoot it? I wouldn't want to stumble on one of these things at 5 yards only to find out I had a hot loaded softpoint in my gun that would blow itself apart in a few inches of cartilage.
loggerhead
Moderator
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Sheesh! Look, guys, there just ain't no "one size fits all" in hunting anything! Believe me!
Sure, if you have the time to get the proper angle for a shot on a hog that's just standing around, you can kill him with a pipsquesk cartridge. That doesn't prove anything.
Out in the field, you don't know if you'll see a quiescent hog at some distance, and you can plan your shot, taking your time. Or, you might come around a bush and at some five yards find 300 pounds of Irate Bacon. No way to know ahead of time.
What I think H&H is trying to say is that you gotta figure on being able to deal with worst-case conditions. So, penetration of heavy bone and gristle is a major factor. A broken-down animal is less of a threat to your own precious body.
Then again, like a buddy of mine did, you shoot the silly hog with a .357 and have an impressive set of three-inch tusks in the head on your office wall.
Art
Sure, if you have the time to get the proper angle for a shot on a hog that's just standing around, you can kill him with a pipsquesk cartridge. That doesn't prove anything.
Out in the field, you don't know if you'll see a quiescent hog at some distance, and you can plan your shot, taking your time. Or, you might come around a bush and at some five yards find 300 pounds of Irate Bacon. No way to know ahead of time.
What I think H&H is trying to say is that you gotta figure on being able to deal with worst-case conditions. So, penetration of heavy bone and gristle is a major factor. A broken-down animal is less of a threat to your own precious body.
Then again, like a buddy of mine did, you shoot the silly hog with a .357 and have an impressive set of three-inch tusks in the head on your office wall.
Art
Smoke Screen
New member
I'm from a different region. (Kalifornistan) How big to Javelina get? Are they found only in Tex, or are they in AZ and NM too? I would like to hunt em, are they different from pigs in HW? I have hunted pigs in Hawaii and boy, do those Hawaiians know how to cook pig!
Loggerhead,
Answer,
Wild boars with a LOT of euro genetics.
That skull in your picture looks like it came from a very recently domestic hog. In fact it looks a lot like a Duroc skull which is characterized by a short tall skull.
Some characteristics which define a wild boar are. Short round ears never floppy like on a farm pig. A longer head. A tall narrow chest with thin relatively light hindquarters.
Coloration is black to golden brown with a distinctive "Razor" along the top of the back from the neck to the mid body.
We do get a lot of hogs who have tons of wild boar genes that do not make the color. We have quite a few white spotted hogs which have all the other wild characteristics.
Every once in a while we'll shoot a nearly pure feral Duroc or Hampshire but it's pretty rare on our place. We even once shot a huge Pot belly/wild boar cross. Talk about a weird looking pig.
So I guess what Art said is even more salient. It is not possible to make a definitive statement when it comes to animals and huinting in general.
Here are some pics of an almost pure wild boar skull. He was about 200lbs.
Here is an example of what I was refering to on brain placement. Behind and slightly below the top of the eye.
Here is an example of my statement that wild hogs have a flat skull which can deflect bullets.
Here is a view of how a hog would hold his head in a natural position. I think it is clear how one could imagine a possibility of a deflection from this angle. Also notice the "point" at the back and top of the skull. That is the Ocipital point and is nothing more than solid bone the brain lies in the bulge right behind the eyes. The pointy tip of the skull is often what is hit which merely knocks a hog out. Which is exactly what can happen if you shoot a facing boar above the eyes.
I think this also can explain how difficult it can be to make a succesfull head shot on a hog under field conditions with a pistol.
Greg
Answer,
Wild boars with a LOT of euro genetics.
That skull in your picture looks like it came from a very recently domestic hog. In fact it looks a lot like a Duroc skull which is characterized by a short tall skull.
Some characteristics which define a wild boar are. Short round ears never floppy like on a farm pig. A longer head. A tall narrow chest with thin relatively light hindquarters.
Coloration is black to golden brown with a distinctive "Razor" along the top of the back from the neck to the mid body.
We do get a lot of hogs who have tons of wild boar genes that do not make the color. We have quite a few white spotted hogs which have all the other wild characteristics.
Every once in a while we'll shoot a nearly pure feral Duroc or Hampshire but it's pretty rare on our place. We even once shot a huge Pot belly/wild boar cross. Talk about a weird looking pig.
So I guess what Art said is even more salient. It is not possible to make a definitive statement when it comes to animals and huinting in general.
Here are some pics of an almost pure wild boar skull. He was about 200lbs.
Here is an example of what I was refering to on brain placement. Behind and slightly below the top of the eye.
Here is an example of my statement that wild hogs have a flat skull which can deflect bullets.
Here is a view of how a hog would hold his head in a natural position. I think it is clear how one could imagine a possibility of a deflection from this angle. Also notice the "point" at the back and top of the skull. That is the Ocipital point and is nothing more than solid bone the brain lies in the bulge right behind the eyes. The pointy tip of the skull is often what is hit which merely knocks a hog out. Which is exactly what can happen if you shoot a facing boar above the eyes.
I think this also can explain how difficult it can be to make a succesfull head shot on a hog under field conditions with a pistol.
Greg
Cobray.
In fact I can't tell you how many times I've found a healed over bullet wounds in a big hogs shield. Most of the time when you find an old scared up bullet divit It'll have green coroded jacket material splatered around in it. The suspect bullets usually look like the remiains of a high velocity .22 or a 6mm or some such light weight high velocity varmint round.
So to answer your question I don't know that a solid is neccesary but a good well built bullet such as a Barnes or a Nosler would be prudent if you are shooting a hotrod light bullet.
Now I don't want any misunderstanding about this The bullets I mentioned were expanded when they got through the shield but they weren't expended. they still got into the goods and did their stuff.
In fact I can't tell you how many times I've found a healed over bullet wounds in a big hogs shield. Most of the time when you find an old scared up bullet divit It'll have green coroded jacket material splatered around in it. The suspect bullets usually look like the remiains of a high velocity .22 or a 6mm or some such light weight high velocity varmint round.
So to answer your question I don't know that a solid is neccesary but a good well built bullet such as a Barnes or a Nosler would be prudent if you are shooting a hotrod light bullet.
Now I don't want any misunderstanding about this The bullets I mentioned were expanded when they got through the shield but they weren't expended. they still got into the goods and did their stuff.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
Ok that cleared up my confusion, so basically as long as a medium bore cartridge is used with a decent expanding bullet it should be fine.
Thanks for coming into this thread and sharing your experience with us!
Thanks for coming into this thread and sharing your experience with us!
loggerhead
Moderator
H&H, the skull I showed is that of a European Boar, about as pure bred as one can find in this area. Most of the "wild" hogs in this part of the country are either European or Feral and mostly Feral. The russians seem to disappear. I also have the skull of a russian that has the same configuration of the fore head. I have observed that when a hog walks or ambels along he does it with his nose down at about a 45 degree angle to his body but when he runs he runs with the nose up, and almost on a level with his body.
Nice skull you got there, looks like the tusk might have been pulled out a little.
Nice skull you got there, looks like the tusk might have been pulled out a little.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Yup....so long as you're referring to a medium bore rifle cartridge.
Actually, those teeth look just about right for that head. Nice skull Greg.
Rich
Cobray,
Yep that's it in a nut shell.
And
You are welcome I do hope that my posts are informative rather than incendiary.
Loggerhead,
I think you may be right on the tooth thing. I probably pulled that bottom one out at one time to show somebody and once you do that they'll never go all the way back in without cracking something. I have shot some euro crosses with muchmore bone sticking out than that though. I've posted this before but here is one of my better ones as far as teeth go he's got nearly 4 inches of tusk on each side out the bottom his tops were both worn off which explains his long bottoms.
Yep that's it in a nut shell.
And
You are welcome I do hope that my posts are informative rather than incendiary.
Loggerhead,
I think you may be right on the tooth thing. I probably pulled that bottom one out at one time to show somebody and once you do that they'll never go all the way back in without cracking something. I have shot some euro crosses with muchmore bone sticking out than that though. I've posted this before but here is one of my better ones as far as teeth go he's got nearly 4 inches of tusk on each side out the bottom his tops were both worn off which explains his long bottoms.
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