Alec Baldwin update

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According to reports from a key grip working on the set, the armorer had an ND prior to the fatal shooting

link deleted

“One of the accidental discharges occurred by ‘armorer girl’ who was messing with a gun. The ‘armorer girl’ had the gun pointed down, when it went off accidentally,” the report says.

[edit]due to Stagpanther reporting some suspicious activity when clicking the nypost link I originally posted, I'm deleting it.

This link does not have the original quote from above in it, but it does refer to incidents of ND on the set:

https://www.lamag.com/article/police-report-on-rust-set-reveals-negligence-disorder/
 
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Not good , may be an indication of the ammo already being mixed up in the boxes . Might be the reason so many were complaining about safety on set . Love to know the details on that one too .
 
I vaguely recall within a few days of the shooting there was a report that oversight of the weapons was so lax that the day or two before people had removed the gun(s) and had taken them out to goof around with them with live fire. That right there would explain to me how the live round(s) got in the gun if true.

BTW--totally unrelated, but the link just posted above to the NY Post article--the moment I clicked on it my firewall stopped a remote computer trying to get access to program(s) on my computer. Just thought I'd mention it. Could be coincidence--or not.
 
edited my original post and substituted another link since stag mentioned some shady stuff when he clicked original link
 
Just a couple of points to consider, and fairly important things to know, which we do not yet know (and may never know with certainty)..

WHO else, if anyone, had the keys to the "arms locker"???

I've worked places where items were kept under lock and key, with a designated person being the only "official" person with access. HOWEVER, duplicate keys WERE possessed by management (and sometimes other people) "just in case"....SO, we don't know if it was possible for someone else to access the set's firearms, aside from the official armorer.

Possibly the armorer was negligent, possibly they weren't but weren't the only one with the keys, despite what official rules and policies were.

I saw the report about an ND on the site a couple days before the accidental shooting. It said there was an ND, didn't say the armorer had the ND.

There is so much crap being reported as if it were fact, we really can't say what is real and what isn't. I saw a "news" report yesterday where the author flatly stated that it was Hannah Guiterrez-Reed who "loaded the gun with a single live round"....

Saw some reports of how, when not filming, guns were "loaned" to cast and crew members to go plink with them in the desert surrounding the film set. No mention if the armorer was involved, or not. No mention of management approving it, or if they just condoned it by "looking the other way"...

We have a mass of potential truth, partial truth and unproven allegations ALL being reported in the press as if they were proven facts.

The only certain things are numerous industry rules were not followed, a woman was killed, a man injured and Baldwin was holding the gun that did it, when it did it. And Baldwin was ALSO the "head honcho" of the entire production.

The rest is speculation, at this point.
 
44 I agree , had a thought though . Lets say there was a ND by whom ever . Maybe it was not a ND but rather a malfunction of the firearm and that same firearm is the same used in the accident. Yes investigations showed the gun was working properly but “maybe” it only fails once and awhile . Maybe Baldwin is telling the truth that he never pulled the trigger . It would be interesting if the same firearm had the ND and both parties swear they did not pull the trigger .

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve had mechanical things arbitrarily fail and can’t figure out why , guns included . I have a GP100 right now that the cylinder hangs up on something every 6th shot when its dirty . It’s nothing major but I can feel the drag or whatever it is causing just a tad more effort to cock the hammer . I can not figure out what it is or why it’s so consistent. The thing is it will be consistent and then all of a sudden it stops and works fine even when dirty .
 
ghbucky said:
According to reports from a key grip working on the set, the armorer had an ND prior to the fatal shooting

link deleted

“One of the accidental discharges occurred by ‘armorer girl’ who was messing with a gun. The ‘armorer girl’ had the gun pointed down, when it went off accidentally,” the report says.
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I believe that was the other "armorer girl" on the film.

There were two young women who were rookies at their assigned positions. Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the armorer, was the armorer, but she was also the assistant property master. The property master, who was a young woman of about the same age as Gutierrez-Reed, is the "girl" who shot herself in the foot with a blank.
 
Maybe it was not a ND but rather a malfunction of the firearm and that same firearm is the same used in the accident.
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Possibly, we have no information either way, but I rather doubt it likely.

When something fails for a mechanical reason, it is consistent and doesn't
"fix" itself. It may only happen when the stars line up the right way, but if the cause is mechanical failure it will happen every time the stars line up the right way.

Friend of mine had a Walther, which failed so that putting the safety ON, (decocked) and FIRED THE GUN! BUT, only when the gun was held upright. He had carried the gun for 6 months, never had an issue, but my friend has short fingers and tipped the gun sideways to reach the safety. He did this every time, and the gun had no indication of problems. Another friend of his shot it at the range, and when he applied the safety, it fired. And, did it again when the gun was held upright in the usual firing position. My friend could decock it and it wouldn't go off because he tipped it sideways when he did it. Otherwise, it would fire when put "on safe".

Gunsmith was baffled, had never seen anything like that before. The parts would line up and work properly when the gun was tilted, but not when it wasn't. The point here is mechanical failure, not consistent every time the gun was operated, but consistantly failing every time the gun was operated when held a certain way. The stars lined up and it malfunctioned.

With your GP 100, pull the cylinder off and check/clean the crane, That might do it. Some years back a fellow brought me one to see if I could fix it, because the cylinder was almost impossible to turn. You could help it with your hand and get it to turn, but the leverage from the hammer & trigger alone wouldn't do it. Open the cylinder and you could hand turn it, but it would not spin. Turned out it had never been cleaned there. The cylinder axis of the crane was black and thickly coated with powder residue. Cleaned it back to bare metal and it worked fine. Good luck with yours, hope something simple like this solves the issue.

It will be interesting to read when/if we ever get the full text of the FBI testing on the gun Baldwin used. "leaks" from the report say that the FBI said it was in normal working condition. Baldwin's lawyers have claimed the gun was broken and the FBI had to fix it in order to test it at all.

Baldwin has said he didn't pull the trigger. He's reported to have said he was trying to lower the hammer and it went off. Taken at face value "something is rotten in Denmark", meaning things don't add up properly.

SOMEONE must be incorrect. I know who I'd put my bet on in this case, and it isn't the FBI, this time...;)
 
To make sure the dead horse is well and truly beaten:

regardless of rather it was an ND, or a malfunction, no one would have been hurt if he had followed common sense, SAG protocols, and NRA training and not been pointing the gun at people.
 
FWIW - When I say ND I mean what ever happened a day or days before not the actual shooting that brought the charges .
 
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MG:
I have a GP100 right now that the cylinder hangs up on something every 6th shot when its dirty . It’s nothing major but I can feel the drag or whatever it is causing just a tad more effort to cock the hammer . I can not figure out what it is or why it’s so consistent. The thing is it will be consistent and then all of a sudden it stops and works fine even when dirty .
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I have a definite "Maybe" for you. Always eject with the muzzle high. Unburned powder will fall clear of the gun.
Eject muzzle low and any unburned powder can fall out of the case mouths etc and it will fall into the recess for the extractor/ejector , So the powder will be trapped under the extractor/ejector. It takes up space. It acts like a shim. So now the extractor ejector is high. The case rims (headspace feature) rest on the extractor/ejector. Results? Functionally,inadequate head clearance. Friction between case heads and recoil shield.

Remember: Muzzle up to eject.
 
Thanks HiBC I'll keep an eye on that . FWIW it does it loaded or unloaded so I don't think the cartridge being in the cylinder has anything to do with it .
 
Standard advice that every revolver shooter should know (but apparently some don't) Muzzle UP for emptying, DOWN for loading. That way, gravity works for you, both ways.

And for cap & ball shooters, since there is no ejecting, muzzle up for loading, down for capping.
 
I have to be honest although never down on extraction. I do at times have it closer to horizontal then up and pretty much always up-ish rather then straight up or almost straight up . I’ll definitely keep an eye on that moving forward.
 
I don't see now she could have done her job in that environment without X-Ray vision and a way of intimidating Baldwin.
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Quit.

And she is reported to have been one of the participants in using guns to "plink" with. So, you can't plink without live rounds can you? Kind of a total duh. How is she not guilty of manslaughter?

Granted pretty much the whole set should be charged (hats off to the two guys who quit).

Gross stupidity, abuse, negligence. Not even a question.



The operation makes the Wild Wild West look tame.
 
To be fair to all , why can’t you go plink especially with the firearms “expert” on set . I would think people in movies out in the middle of nowhere play with all the cool tools/toys on site on there free time to include guns , cars , knives , jewelry etc .

I’m not claiming who , what , how or why they used the guns is ok but at the same time going out back and shooting after hours , that in it’s self does not sound like a big deal to me . If I was on set with a bunch of cool oldschool guns around . I’d ask if we could go shoot on down time , that would be pretty cool .
 
Metal god said:
To be fair to all , why can’t you go plink especially with the firearms “expert” on set . I would think people in movies out in the middle of nowhere play with all the cool tools/toys on site on there free time to include guns , cars , knives , jewelry etc .

I’m not claiming who , what , how or why they used the guns is ok but at the same time going out back and shooting after hours , that in it’s self does not sound like a big deal to me . If I was on set with a bunch of cool oldschool guns around . I’d ask if we could go shoot on down time , that would be pretty cool .
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Maybe because live ammunition shouldn't be on set with a bunch of non-professionals?
 
You’re right it shouldn’t and going out and plinking doesn’t put live ammo on set . Being careless on putting it way when you return does . Might point was minimal , going out and shooting when you are in the middle of nowhere in it self is not a big deal , is all I’m saying .
 
I should think that if you want actors to be able to use a gun on set, taking them out for a plinking session could help their acting be more believable. Might give a good opportunity to do so safety training, too. Of course, it's unlikely that AB would have degraded himself to actually go out and take part.

--Wag--
 
If a weapon is allowed on or off set for live ammo use--then the entire process of checking it back in and ALL the types of ammo and recertifying them for safe use would have to start all over again for EVERYTHING used on the set IMO.
 
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