Aiming: One Eye or Two?

[gregma]

You can train yourself to shoot w/both eyes open. One eye will be more dominant than the other and it is usually the same eye as your strong hand. Once you know which eye is dominant, place a piece of transparent tape horizontally across the lens of your shooting glasses on the non-dominant eye side. The tape will usually be from the halfway line up. This will occlude the sight from the non-domnant eye. Doing this will also train your mind which image is "true" and you will eventually be able to do it without the tape. If you encounter the problem again, repeat the process.

Actually neither of my eyes are dominant. At all. I have been trying with the tape for 3 months now. I go every weekend and shoot for at least an hour each time. Almost 1000 rounds. Still nothing.

I will continue to try this, but even with the tape I am no where near as accurate as with one eye closed. But I will continue to work on it when I shoot at the range just in case something magical will happen some day.

Thanks!
Greg

 

[Lurper]

do not have a dominant eye, 20/20 in both. I can NOT get one eye to see along the sights with both open. At closer range, I either point shoot or place the front sight between the two targets. I shoot both eyes out to around 10 yds. More than that I go one eyed and standard sight picture

Eye dominance has nothing to do with visual acuity. One of your eyes will be dominant because you cannot draw a straight line from one object (like the sight) to both of your eyes.
To find your dominant eye: find a small object 10-15 ft away (a doorknob works well), focus on the object then point your finger at it. Close one eye without moving your finger. If your finger is still pointing at the object, that is your dominant eye. Without moving your finger, close your other eye. Your finger will be off to one side of the object.


Ask yourself this: How many of the top shooters in the world use one eye?
The answer is none. Some do use tape on their glasses for iron sights though.

The reality is that at the distances self defense shootings take place, you could hit the target without using the sights.

 

[gregma]

focus on the object then point your finger at it. Close one eye without moving your finger.

When I close my left eye, the finger is to the left of the object. When I close my right eye, the finger is to the right of the object. When I have both eyes open, I see two fingers.

Thanks!
Greg

 

[kcshooter]

Ok, cup your hand, like a loose fist. Now look at a spot on the wall thru your thumb and forefinger with both eyes open. Now bring your hand back to one eye, then the other. The one that doesn't cause the object to be blocked out at some point thruout the travel back towards your face is the dominant eye.

 

[Lurper]

Greg
One of the fingers will be a "ghost" image, the other will be solid. The solid one is the one from your dominant eye. I would guess that you may be cross dominant because when you close your left eye if you are right dominant your finger will be off to the opposite side of the object - in this case the right side. Again, you can't draw a straight line from the object through your finger to both eyes. The one that falls along that line is the dominant eye.

 

[gregma]

One of the fingers will be a "ghost" image, the other will be solid.

Actually both are crisp, sharp, and quite solid. There is absolutely no differences between the two images. Well, other than the left one is slightly lower than the right one.

Ok, cup your hand, like a loose fist. Now look at a spot on the wall thru your thumb and forefinger with both eyes open.

I made more progress with this! Although I did see two thumbs and two "sets" of fingers, one farther left than the other, I chose the group that was farthest to the left. Brought it to the right eye.

Thanks!
Greg

 

[gvf]

Dominant Eye

Two other tests for eye-dominance:

- make a small triangle or square with forefingers tips and thumb tips of both hands , about 1/2" in area, a "peak-hole". Hold arms half bent and sight on small object 10-20' away. Slowly bring the little peep-hole increasingly closer to face while retaining sight of small object. Fingers will naturally end up in front of the dominant eye.

- make large triangle with both hands. Fingers the "sides", thumbs the "base", it will look like a "tent". Sight on small object 30 or 40' away so it is in center of your hand-triangle. Now, alternately close and open each eye. With non-dominant eye, the object will be hidden or mostly hidden behind the hands. With dominant eye object will remain in center of your hand-triangle.

 

[pax]

Ask yourself this: How many of the top shooters in the world use one eye? The answer is none. Some do use tape on their glasses for iron sights though.

Why don't they simply train themselves to shoot with both eyes open?

Lurper's comment shows that, regardless of experience and training, some people simply do not have the wiring which allows one eye to be enough dominant over the other for quick work when precision also matters. That's why these competitors put tape on their shooting glasses.

Now, next question: does anyone here routinely tape over their glasses whenever they conceal carry?

pax

 

[gregma]

make a small triangle or square with forefingers tips and thumb tips of both hands , about 1/2" in area, a "peak-hole". Hold arms half bent and sight on small object 10-20' away. Slowly bring the little peep-hole increasingly closer to face while retaining sight of small object. Fingers will naturally end up in front of the dominant eye.

It's about 50-50. A very small majority of the time they come to the right eye, a very small minority of the time they come to the left eye.

- make large triangle with both hands. Fingers the "sides", thumbs the "base", it will look like a "tent". Sight on small object 30 or 40' away so it is in center of your hand-triangle. Now, alternately close and open each eye. With non-dominant eye, the object will be hidden or mostly hidden behind the hands. With dominant eye object will remain in center of your hand-triangle.

When I close the left eye, the object moves closer to the left side, but still in the triangle. When I close the right eye, the object moves closer to the right side, but still in the triangle. The object is about 40 feet away.

This is SO frustrating!!

 

[Lurper]

some people simply do not have the wiring which allows one eye to be enough dominant over the other for quick work when precision also matters.

It's not a matter of wiring, it is a question of training. You cannot draw a straight line through two objects to both of your eyes, one eye is dominant. What you are doing is training your mind to ignore the ghost image. The way you train it is to use tape. Once it is trained, you can shoot without the tape.

Closing one eye to shoot is creating a crutch that is not necessary and could cost you. First, you don't need a lot of precision. Hitting a 8" plate at 10 yards is all the precision necessary.
Second, speed is more important, it is what will increase your chance of survival. Typically, the first person to hit their target prevails in a gunfight.
Train yourself to shoot with both eyes open. Anyone can do it regardless of whether you use the sights, point shooting or indexing techniques or whether you think an eye is dominant or not.

 

[pax]

Lurper ~

Okay, my rhetorical question just became a real question: If EVERYONE can learn to shoot quickly, precisely and accurately with both eyes open, why don't these highly-experienced, trained competitors get rid of the "crutch" of using tape on one lens?

pax

 

[gvf]

To Gregma (or "non-dominant eyes")

Gregma: when you shoot with one eye, which eye do you use, or if you alternate, what's your favorite, better: the one you are most accurate with ?

OK, next time you shoot, shoot with both eyes open after the first time shooting with the most accurate one-eyed shot you have. Then, when you keep both eyes open, if you see a double image, shoot at the one that corresponds to your most accurate eye. Ignore the other. Maybe shoot at a closer distance, say 15 feet, helps to keep the double images from being real far apart if you do see two. If it drives you nuts, make sure you're paying attention to the front sight but not squinting or trying too hard. When I shoot the most accurately is when I'm not trying to squeeze my face into a fist etc. Try making your face a blank, like you don't care.

Anyway, those tricks work for me but may not for you. As a new shooter I find that tension and strain are the things that throw my aim off the most. The more I keep my body and face relaxed but alert, with a tight grip but only using the hand muscles (not the shoulders, arms, legs etc.) the more naturally the shots hit where I want them. I don't know if this is "right", but it makes for more accuracy and I enjoy shooting a lot more. Whenever I get angry at myself, I take a break and have a coke or something and think about something else for a few minutes. I want to enjoy my range time, otherwise I'll stop going.

 

[Lurper]

Pax
Because the application is different.
For SD, you are shooting at extremely close range, a small amount of ammo in a short amount of time and don't require a lot of precision.

For competition, you are shooting a lot of rounds over a longer period, at various ranges and require more precision.

Most of the top shooters do not use tape, although there are some who do (but only with iron sights). Again, the reality is (all rhetoric aside) that at typical self defense ranges one eye will not make a difference in how accurate you are. It may however slow you down enough to get you in trouble. More importantly, it will occupy your mind with trivial thoughts that you don't need at a time of crisis. With proper training, I can teach anyone to hit the target at 10 yards or less in under a second with both eyes open (regardless of eye dominance, tape, double images, etc.). As the distance decreases the sights become less and less important, even though I advocate always using the sights.

Train to shoot with both eyes open quickly for SD. For recreation, shoot w/one if necessary but you can train yourself to shoot w/2.


FWIW I use tape if I am shooting iron sights, no tape for optics. There are many times when I switch guns without switching lenses on my glasses. I can shoot equally well with the tape as without. That is because using the tape trained my mind to pay attention to the image from the dominant eye.

 

[pax]

Lurper ~

It has not been my experience that blinking an eye takes any longer than -- well, than the blink of an eye. Nor does it take any particular thought.

It has been my experience that choosing between multiple, equally-bright, equally-focused images takes both time and concentration (concentration you might not have to spare). This is true for folks who are trained as well as for those who are not. If it were simply a matter of "get more training," then those highly-trained, highly-experienced competitors would not need to put tape on their glasses when shooting for accuracy under time stress.

Additionally, you imply that accuracy over distance absolutely will not be required by a self-defense shooter. This is not supported by the facts. Statistically, it is more likely that your encounter -- if it ever comes -- will be fast and close. But that does not guarantee it will be either. If you are unfortunate enough to be involved in a situation in which extreme accuracy over distance is required, you had darn well better know how to get your hits accurately over distance.

I am quite uncomfortable with claims that there is only one way to do things: "only one good caliber," "only one decent brand of gun," "only one useful stance," and "only one correct grip" are all equally wrong-headed. People are different from each other! Not everyone has the same hand size, the same firearms selection priorities, the same body shape, or the same physical wiring.

My credo is still, Do what works for you.

pax

 

[obxned]

Why handicap your self by using only one eye and loosing your depth perception?

 

[pax]

obxned ~

How much of the thread have you read?

pax

 

[sm]

Aw crap,
I just use a shotgun as shotguns are pointed - not aimed.
'Sides everyone knows [tm] one can't miss with all them pellets.


Fred Misseldine, Champion Shooter, and author of
Score Better at Skeet
Score Better at Trap
Used both eyes. It did not matter if any of his 1300s in 12, 20, 28 ga or .410 had a bead on the barrel or not, if he could see it, he could fell it.
Fluid and smooth with no wasted motion like "Painting them out of the sky".
I've stood right there as he did this, be it clay, duck, dove or quail.

Live long enough and age takes its toll. Fred was older, aches, pains, problems and blind in one eye.
He was still able to Paint them out of the sky.

The reality is, as Fred and so many have shared throughout the years, is not everyone is built at the factory the same way.
It happens.
So one has to do what one has to do to live life on life terms.
Seasoned shooters that can access and assist are worth their weight in gold to folks born like this, or during life suffer a set back.

I get the patch off my weak eye, and turn right back around one weak later and have to wear another.
Odd that even with safety glasses, with side shields, something in my work would get past them safety glasses.
Odder is having safety glasses with side shields and a face shield, and do this again.
Eye Doc/ Surgeon is a relative of mine, and a shooter.
"This just don't happen" he said and we discussed some additional safety measures, he came to see the task that was causing this.

I get the patch off the weak eye the second time, and 2 weeks later in a business related matter, I mess up my right eye.
Short version, a car wreck, I was evading someone being mean...

I had Chuck Yeager eyes at the time. Still I was wearing my Ray Ban Aviators when I had that wreck.
At night I wore my Bushnell clear Aviators I shot in. [shooting glasses]
Something suggested from a defensive driving private instructor or three.
Protect the eyes , and when matters get serious, you gotta see to evade and take action.

Sure am glad my Mentors and Elders made a big deal out of lessons, learning and doing the odd stuff they did with me.
Both eyes and strong side down so doing everything weak handed.
Dominant eye down and doing both strong and weak hands
Weak eye down and doing both strong and weak hands.

One never knows when they will find themselves having to do ADLs [Activities of Daily Living] different.
Might be something from birth, accident or injury, temporary or permanent.

Not a good idea to so hard headed one cannot be receptive to reality.

 

[C-BASS]

I aim with one eye-----------------
...never been in a gunfight.

Lucky we got eyes.

 

[Deaf Smith]

The only time I aiim with one eye is when there is something stuck in the other. Keep both eyes open and get used to it. Open sights, scopes, holo-sights, etc.. it don't matter. Keep'em open.

Deaf

 

[03Shadowbob]

I'm one of those one-eyed shooters

Unfortunately, I am still trying after almost 20 years of handgun shooting and training to be accurate with both eyes open. I know it is best but for some reason I just wasn't made this way and do not trust my accuracy over 5 yards or so with both eyes open.
But I'll keep trying and practicing and hopefully I'll be able to override genetics