Aiming: One Eye or Two?

[pax]

kcshooter ~

Back a hundred years ago or so, schoolteachers all believed that left-handedness was simply a crutch, a case of the kid being stubborn, and that anyone could be taught to be right-handed.

Were they technically correct? I suppose so; entire generations of schoolchildren were forced to "be" right-handed, whether their personal wiring supported that practice or not. So technically, they were correct: any school child could be taught to be right-handed.

But among those students were a significant number of children who never did learn to write as easily, as quickly, as fluently, as they would have learned if they had been taught in accordance with their built-in wiring rather than in opposition to it. And the record also shows that lefties were far more likely than righties to drop out of school and thus never learn to write at all.

Appropos of nothing much...

pax

 

[Lurper]

I posted on an earlier thread one Q about sighting in a real SD situation: dosen't staying with the front sight while aiming prevent full awareness of what the perp is doing, including the possible awareness you've misinterpreted an agressive move and the perp is NOT actually a perp. On that other thread, a number of posters recommended POINT SHOOTING.

Focusing on the front sight does not prevent you from seeing what is taking place around you (what it does is tells you exactly where the shot will hit). Also, you shouldn't be pointing your pistol at the BG unless you have already made the decision to shoot.

Point shooting is not faster than using your sights. With proper training, anyone can be taught to draw and hit a target at 10 yds in under a second using the sights. There is no reason to not use the sights if using them is just as fast. The only time to not use them is if the BG is within arm's reach.

In the 20+ years I've been doing this and the thousands of people I have taught, I have yet to run across someone who cannot be trained to shoot w/both eyes open.

 

[kcshooter]

Pax
I understand your point, but the difference is, what harm could come from left-handedness, (other than needing different scissors)?
In this situation, you are risking compromising safety when simply learning to do it another way would increase your ability to defend yourself.

A case of agree to disagree, I suppose.

 

[jh9x18ky]

Especially for handguns, both eyes for me..... squinting one eye causes strain.. not as comfortable as both eyes open.... But to each his or her own.

 

[pax]

In this situation, you are risking compromising safety when simply learning to do it another way would increase your ability to defend yourself.

Actually, I covered that in my first post on this thread.

People who are not wired for the ability to focus on a small point with both eyes open have two distinct risks they encounter when they try to do it anyway:

1) Missing the target, and perhaps hitting an innocent while doing so. "You can't miss fast enough to win" applies not only to IPSC, but also to real life.

2) Fatal slowness, as the shooter battles with a confusing array of multiple, equally-bright images and must choose between them in a moment of high stress.

Both slowness and missing the target are more likely to get you killed than tunnel vision is, and the risk from tunnel vision can be reduced by deliberately training yourself to physically break out of it at the moment your finger comes off the trigger.

pax

 

[kcshooter]

Yeah, or you could just learn to do it right.

Both slowness and missing the target are more likely to get you killed than tunnel vision is, and the risk from tunnel vision can be reduced by deliberately training yourself to physically break out of it at the moment your finger comes off the trigger.

I think I covered this in my first post also.

I'm not saying if one can't do it right this minute, and is attacked later today to go against one's abilities. What I'm saying is starting right now someone who can't shoot with both eyes needs to learn to do it!
Why train to re-open that eye instead of training to keep both open?
Training to work around a handicap doesn't make any sense when you could just train to defeat the handicap.
With training and practice, your two points, inaccuracy and lack of speed, can both be overcome.
I don't believe there is anyone that can't be trained to do this.

How is shutting one eye to get a sight picture translate into speed anyway?? Kind of works against you, doesn't it? You should be able to keep both eyes open, keep the front sight locked on your target while still being able to asses the situation and take the shot if need be without shutting an eye and re-aquiring the sight picture. No way is that as fast as being proficient with two eyes open and front sight usage.

Did you pick up a gun the first time and shoot a string of bullseyes, whether it was with one or two eyes? Unless you are one of the very very few who have a natural ability, you had to be trained for accuracy. Going from one eye to two simply requires being retrained to be accurate.


There is one school of thought in defensive training, both eyes open. I won't argue with every piece of training I've ever had, heard, read or otherwise absorbed as long as it seems to ring true and make sense. Two eyes in a SD situation makes sense.

 

[pax]

Training to work around a handicap doesn't make any sense when you could just train to defeat the handicap.

You are vehemently arguing against a position I have not taken.

If you can just train to defeat the handicap, do so.

If you can't, then be aware that it is a handicap, and do what you need to do in order to work around it.

Finis.

pax

 

[gvf]

Laser

I was playing around with a laser pen - suppose the best would be laser sight on your handgun if you have one - but the pen works fine if you can line it up so you can see the far and near end to "sight" it. Keep both eyes open. If you pick a doorknob or other small object as the "target" 10 yards away or so, you find the double image phenomena that can be confusing when shooting a handgun - long as your aiming with the front end (front sight) of the pen. But I find at least, being rt eye dominant, aiming with the right image as the "target" gives me the "hit" with the laser. and I think the reverse would be true if left eye was dominant. However, after the first few times if you stop thinking about it, the non-dominant second image (the left one for me) is no longer really focused on by the brain, you're not aware of it. Then it's easy, since the brain is naturally paying attention to what it needs to pay attention to. Try it.

 

[easyG]

There's nothing wrong with shooting with one-eye as long as you can consistantly hit your targets.
I think the whole "both eyes open" argument is greatly overstated.

 

[gregma]

I would *love* to be able to shoot with both eyes open. However, I am neither eye dominant thus with both eyes open, I see two targets, and two back sights.

It really sucks, but I'm forced to close one eye.

Thanks!
Greg

 

[Lurper]

Greg
You can train yourself to shoot w/both eyes open. One eye will be more dominant than the other and it is usually the same eye as your strong hand. Once you know which eye is dominant, place a piece of transparent tape horizontally across the lens of your shooting glasses on the non-dominant eye side. The tape will usually be from the halfway line up. This will occlude the sight from the non-domnant eye. Doing this will also train your mind which image is "true" and you will eventually be able to do it without the tape. If you encounter the problem again, repeat the process.

 

[mlandman]

Pax posted -
Back a hundred years ago or so, schoolteachers all believed that left-handedness was simply a crutch, a case of the kid being stubborn, and that anyone could be taught to be right-handed.

Heck...I was taught to be right handed despite what nature thought!

I do not have a dominant eye, 20/20 in both. I can NOT get one eye to see along the sights with both open. At closer range, I either point shoot or place the front sight between the two targets. I shoot both eyes out to around 10 yds. More than that I go one eyed and standard sight picture.

 

[gvf]

Those Who Have Been In Real Situations

Any words on this this from those who have been faced with the "real" thing?

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I do not have a dominant eye, 20/20 in both. I can NOT get one eye to see along the sights with both open. At closer range, I either point shoot or place the front sight between the two targets. I shoot both eyes out to around 10 yds. More than that I go one eyed and standard sight picture.

My vision is 20/13 in both, but that means nothing in cross-dominance. I have always been cross-dominant, and Pax is right. No matter how hard I've tried over tha last 40 years, there is no correcting it no matter how many people tell me I can. One eye closes, period! And I shoot rather well.

I will not argue with anybody on the subject. Pax is right!

 

[Big Calhoun]

I used to shoot one-eyed because using both eyes would cause double-vision in my sight picture. After some training and practice, I can shoot with both eyes open or just one, equally well.

 

[kcshooter]

I will not argue with anybody on the subject. Pax is right!

Adamantly stating someone is right when others disagree? Uh, dude, that's argueing.



This is my last word on this. I won't try to continue to convince those who want to disagree with the wisdom of the best and most respected authorities on defensive shooting. If you think you know better than them, so be it.
The only way to properly be able to defend yourself unhindered is to be able to keep your eyes open and keep your sight fixed on your target. Period. Attend any and every defensive shooting class and see if anyone says anything different. If you can't do it now then you need to make it a priority at your range practice sessions.
If you only target shoot then fine, do what you feel like, but if you shoot to be in a position to defend yourself, you are selling yourself short by not working on this skill.

And for all of you who keep saying you can't do it, have any of you tried? Have you worked with a teacher to learn to do it? You CAN train your eyes to work like this. I did it. Saying you can't is simply giving up. Same as you learned to shoot better with one eye open, you can train to shoot better with both eyes open.
Saying you can't is like a brand new shooter picking up a gun for the first time, not hitting a bullseye and saying, "well I just can't shoot". You can, you just need to be taught how to, and to practice.
I don't care what your dominant eyes situation is, vision is vision, and when you learn that what you see in the relationship between sight and target equals a hit, you will be able to learn to repeat that sight picture-no matter how you see it.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I won't try to continue to convince those who want to disagree with the wisdom of the best and most respected authorities on defensive shooting.

Uh, dude, you've been trying with every post. Drop it.

 

[kcshooter]

Quote:

I won't try to continue to convince those who want to disagree with the wisdom of the best and most respected authorities on defensive shooting.

Uh, dude, you've been trying with every post. Drop it.

Yeah, that's why I said CONTINUE. Not very good with English are ya? First you don't know what arguing is then you don't know what continue means. Try paying attention. Maybe take notes if you're having trouble keeping up. Post when you have something to say.

 

[easyG]

The only way to properly be able to defend yourself unhindered is to be able to keep your eyes open and keep your sight fixed on your target. Period.

As common with most "blanket statements", the statement quoted above just is'nt true.
Folks have been successfully defending themselves with handguns for well over a hundred years, and many did so (and some still do) using "one-eyed-shooting".

I grew up shooting with one eye closed, but later, while in the Army, I learned to keep both eyes open while shooting a handgun.
I can usually hit my target either way but I'm more accurate with one eye closed.
Neither method seems to makes much difference in my situational awareness at the time I'm shooting.

 

[skeeter1]

Open iron sights, one eye. Serious pistol target, one eye. Pistol point shooting or self defense, both eyes. Scope, aperature or red dot sights, both eyes. Shotgun, both eyes (lets me see what I missed. )

Pops

Pops--

You nailed it! That's exactly what I do. Kindred spirits!