Advice for a HS teacher who can now carry in class

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Falcon642

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So I'm moving to Utah in a couple of weeks, that means I will be able to carry in class. So I'm trying to think this through so I can do it right.

Couple of absolutes first:

1. I wear dockers, long sleaved collared shirt, and cowboy boots to work every day. This is non-negotiable

2. The weapon must be kept on body and completely concealed at ALL times. (No complaints here, that's the rules though).

3. Weapon security is a major concern. I will not pocket carry my Colt Mustang. I'm a high school teacher and breaking up fights is part of the job. I have serious concerns about losing my weapon while breaking up a fight.

So with that background in mind. What suggestions do you have for me. My wife has given the ok to buy another gun. I'd better keep the price under $500 though.

Here's what I'm thinking. I'm really looking hard at a new Zastava M57 in 7.62X25 Tokarev. My reasoning is that there is a good chance that a school shooter will be wearing some sort of body armor, and a Tokarev gives me about the best chance of defeating that armor. I know the risks of overpenetration, but this is a nightmare situation that is going to have lots of drawbacks regardless of the weapon I choose.

I've also looked at .357 sig and a really hot .327 federal for the same reasons as the Tokarev.

The problem with the Tokarev is its a bit big, and I'm not sure how I'd conceal it; maybe some sort of belly band holster I don't know.

Thanks in advance for the advice.
 
To me the issue first is how to carry?
Is the collared shirt tucked in? Have you considered a sport coat?

Have you considered an ankle holster? With the boots HIGHLY unlikely to fall out. Negative is location is hard to get to quickly, and can be hot.
 
"...long sleaved collared shirt..." As in a long sleeved collared shirt? Or a matted or raveled collared shirt? snicker.
The 7.62 X 25 is not going to penetrate the cheapest body armour. Neither will any other pistol cartridge.
Re-think the M57(just a Serbian Tokarev copy) unless you can be absolutely 100% sure of being able to make a head shot with a pistol that is not designed for accuracy.
A minimum leather holster will hold your pistol ready but secure tight against your body. A kid will have to work at getting it away from you.
 
I think he meant he's not wearing a T-shirt or joining the Old guy Hawaiian shirt mafia (on the other hand, I am a founding member).
 
Have you looked into the tuckable holsters? Allows you to tuck a shirt over the gun and holster. They also have special clips that go behind the belt and hook under it so you cant see the clips on the belt. Check out the tuckable holsters by Crossbreed.

leather-tuckable.jpg


Also I agree with T.O'Heir, not only is the 7.62x25 marginal at best at defeating body armor, but the amount of times body armor has been used in any sort of criminal activity is astronomically low. My body armor is level III+, and anything short of armor piercing steel core 30-06 wont penetrate it. Personally I would just stick to whatever pistol caliber you would normally use, my preference is 9mm though YMMV.

I am in the middle of a career change into education myself and will likely end up in High School or Middle School, though there is zero chance I will ever be able to carry as a teacher here in MA. When I do finally end up in a school I am going to pick up one of these soft briefcases that transform into a plate carrier vest.

http://www.ar500armor.com/escort-plate-carrier.html#.VahR1UY8Rnk

AR500_Armor_Escort_09.jpg
 
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Buyd a nano, shield, or an SR9C and ankle carry. Any other way sooner or later your kids will know eventually if you waist band carry. One will bump into you etc..., than all will know. That will likely be a good thing, But, if CC is your intent, keeping it concealed and safely away until needed requires something like ankle carry. God Bless
 
I'd probably carry a Boberg XR9-S or XR-45-S because it will be reliable, concealable, light weight, is DAO and is fairly powerful for its size.

That tuckable holster looks like a good idea, but how do I draw the gun from concealment? I guess I have to remember to untuck my shirt first and then draw?:confused:
 
As a former teacher, I personally don't like the idea of in school carry. There were just too many up close opportunities for students to find out it is there and possibly make a grab for it. I'm not just talking about breaking up fights, either. How many times each day do you bend down to help a student at their desk? Depending on where you are carrying, that potentially exposes the gun to the student you are helping or those seated around that student. If NE had passed in school carry while I was teaching, I would not have done it.

All that being said, if you choose to carry, I recommend a small gun and an ankle holster. There are plenty of options that will come in under your $500 limit, and it will be far less likely to be discovered by students in your daily activities.
 
My reasoning is that there is a good chance that a school shooter will be wearing some sort of body armor...
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How many of the historical school and other shootings of the public has the shooter worn body armor? Your assumption seems somewhat faulty.
 
1. I wear dockers, long sleaved collared shirt, and cowboy boots to work every day. This is non-negotiable

2. The weapon must be kept on body and completely concealed at ALL times. (No complaints here, that's the rules though).

3. Weapon security is a major concern. I will not pocket carry my Colt Mustang.
Click to expand...

Pocket carry something else.
 
That tuckable holster looks like a good idea, but how do I draw the gun from concealment? I guess I have to remember to untuck my shirt first and then draw?
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It's no different than normally carrying IWB untucked, use your non dominant hand to life up your shirt, and draw with your dominant hand.
 
There are really three considerations here:

1. You don't want ANYONE knowing you carry there.

2. As stated, you don't want it coming loose while breaking up a fight or engaging in other fast-action teacher stuff.

3. In the unlikely event of school terrorism, it isn't just lives on the line. These terrorists put gun rights on trial in the minds of everyone who fails to understand the concept of inalienable rights. So the consequences, whether for screwing up or saving the day, are radically amplified.

Given this and the non-negotiable wardrobe, it looks like Falcon642 is facing the challenge of getting very good with a gun that's thin and small, and learning to conceal it very well. This is going to take work and it might mean trying a few different holsters before finding the right one.

How you will carry and what you carry are obviously related. Without a jacket, this probably means a carry choice of pocket, tuckable IWB, and boot/ankle. For guns, you are probably looking at revolvers no bigger than an LCR or J-frame and semis no bigger than a Shield or PPS.

I strongly recommend contacting some fellow gun owners, friends at the range, or a friendly retailer who can let you handle some guns in this category, and hopefully play with some holster types while you are wearing a good example of your wardrobe.

As others have pointed out, full body armor is fairly rare and you shouldn't count on any of these handgun rounds to pierce it, much less from a compact or subcompact. I recommend keeping it simple: premium defense loads in 9mm, .38 special, or .380 if need be.

No matter what you get: PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!! Even if you think you're good, PRACTICE MORE! Make this particular gun an extension of yourself and keep that practice dynamic and challenging.
 
(#3) how is pocket carry not secure? Does it have something to do with the type of pockets used in Docker pants?

if your worried about retention during a fight I would take martial arts and focus on grappeling skills.
 
Definitely either pocket-carry or a SmartCarry holster. Both are totally concealed with no chance of showing. However, both require small firearms (pocket carry a little more so than SmartCarry).
 
Presuming you are carrying in the event of an active shooter, instead of breaking up teen fights, your assumption that the shooter may be wearing body armor is not to be faulted. That probability is certainly going to higher in active shooter situations than in simple self-defense scenarios at home or at the store.

Your caliber or bullet choice should be made with that in mind, but center-of-mass training is imperative. So is some drill with your other carrying staff, if any. What is your communications setup in class?

I would carry completely concealed, IWB or a zippered pocket as on cargo pants, again presuming you don't want quick draw capability, but an available weapon once you start hearing multiple shots fired. Hopefully, your classroom isn't the first to be chosen.

Consider pistol in one pocket and the magazines in another, if the prospect of losing a loaded weapon in common school fights is a concern.

Don't overlook a .45 ACP, such as a Colt Officer's Model or similar.
 
The 7.62 X 25 is not going to penetrate the cheapest body armour.
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Incorrect. This round is among the best soft body armor and even kevlar penetrators. It's fast and designed to penetrate.

While assailants wearing armor is rare, it's not unheard of or impossible. I'd say shoot whatever works best.

OP needs a good IWB holster that offers absolute positive retention, and a thin gun. The tuckable holster is a good suggestion.
 
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Smart Carry is probably your best bet. The gun is well and easily protected, and easily and quickly accessed. Its also pretty much invisible, but especially in a pair of pleated Dockers.

I wear one under my Carhartts and Dickies carpenter jeans, and you cant see a hint of my Glock 26 with its 17 reload, and those pants ride basically fitted and flat across the front.

www.smartcarry.com
 
Buy something with A LOT of holster options already on the market. Buy something that you can shoot a lot.


That means none of the weird,my common guns people keep throwing at you. You want something from Glock, S&W, or one of HK or Sig's more common models.


If you are expected to go "hands on" In Hallway scuffle, a magazine drop safety is a quick way of immediately disabling a dropped gun. My personal recommendation is to just keep other kids out of the way from getting hurt until security or police arrive for a fistfight.


Some of the S&W M&P's have mag drop safeties, as well as the third gen autos. The M&P had a ton of holster options, but the third gens don't have so many these days.

I think the body armor concern is pretty far out there. Just stick with a common caliber that you can carry concealed in a multitude of ways, safely disable, and also practice with. If the assailant has body armor or not, if he has a rifle is the larger concern. You'll be a bullet sponge if you have to engage someone armed with a semi auto rifle anyways, so just focus on slowing and drawing Fire. Perhaps you are the one who should be looking at body armor if you are preparing with such enthusiasm.




Also. Get a lot of professional training. It sounds like you are putting it upon yourself to offer an all or nothing hero shot if someone shoots up your school, while commendable, your ability to handle such things comes down to training and not day dreaming.m until then, your just a guy with a gun who happens to be a teacher. Comcealed carry is for your protection, not for anyone else.
 
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Well, if we want to go with evidence of past school shootings, then I would suggest that an active shooter wearing body armor requires -NO- different prep or planning than one without. These sub-humans either flee or shoot themselves at the FIRST sign of armed resistance.

In the position you are in, I would opt for a subcompact 9mm pistol that happily accepts and runs with full-size high capacity back-up mags, carried in some manner of a retention holster and ankle carry would seem to be the best for that.

As an example, a Glock 26 with a pair of full 17-rd Glock 17 magazines carried elsewhere, perhaps on the other ankle.

As an aside, I think the idea that your wardrobe is "NON-NEGOTIABLE" is irrationally limiting and unless that is set and enforced by the school board it is the WRONG attitude and it sends the message that your style of clothing is more important to you than carrying a concealed handgun.

Which is certainly fine, if that is how your priorities lie...
Perhaps there is a high fashion clothing forum that can make more effective gun & holster suggestions. ;)
 
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