Active shooter scenario in a public place (Oregon mall)

Rule Number Four

Rule Number Four is to be sure of your target and what's behind it. In the case of a mall shooting, it's almost virtually certain that there's an innocent person behind the shooter. If he's standing in front of a wall, it's probably drywall with shoppers on the other side.

Where to run to: every store has at least one emergency exit in addition to the front door. Run in a store, head to the back. The fire exit may be alarmed, but that's OK. I'd feel a lot better running through the parking lot than being in the mall with a shooter.
 
Where to run to: every store has at least one emergency exit in addition to the front door. Run in a store, head to the back. The fire exit may be alarmed, but that's OK. I'd feel a lot better running through the parking lot than being in the mall with a shooter.
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Can you confirm that from experience? Do all the little boutique shops have exits in the back (I assume to a service entrance). Not being critical. I've never worked in a mall so am only surmising they do and was hoping you can confirm.
 
zincwarrior ~

Modern public buildings (stores, restaurants, malls) all have multiple exits. Fire codes require it.

Older buildings may not, but many of these have been retrofitted with back doors even if they weren't part of the original building. Again, fire codes.

Re malls, the stores do not stock from the customer entrances. They all have back doors, and often storerooms, behind the showroom.

pax
 
For me, my decision process will revolve around:

1. proximity to the shooter - I'm not going against a sea of human panic to try to take the guy down. However if he's close, I'll make the decision then.

2. whether or not my family is with me - getting them out of harm's way is paramount

Everything else is tertiary or "what if".

These incidents remind us that if/when the wolf shows up, the situation may be very, very far from anything we've done at the range, the IPDA match, or have brainstormed on the internet.
 
Thing is, no matter what scenario we run through our minds, it most likely won't go as we envision it.
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That my friend is a thing called "My gunfight" and they never happen as you imagine.

Use sound tactics, be proficient with your weapon, don't panic.


The police response to these things takes 5-10 minutes usually. If someone engages the BG you can and will stop them from slaughtering more. Look at what happened at Trolly Square.
 
I have thought about these situations and it seems like the best plan is one of escape and defense, instead of being the hero. I would not take my gun out, unless I had to shoot.

Protecting loved ones would be my first concern. Protecting myself would be my next concern, but if the opportunity arose to take the bad guy out, to keep him from killing others, I just don't think it's in my makeup to not try to stop him. I am probably going to take him out if I can. However this is not a situation for a mouse gun, and for certain a mouse gun that can't be shot well.

But no one knows what they will do, until put to the fire. It will never go down like you might have for seen in your mind. There is hardly anything positive that is likely to happen to the person that decides to play the hero and a whole lot of bad things can develop from getting shot by the bad guy, or another good guy, or shooting a good guy yourself, to getting sued by the bad guy's family, etc. or getting mistaken by the cops for the bad guy. But knowing all of that, I just don't know if I could cower down, and watch innocent people being killed and do nothing if I had the means to stop it.
 
I don't worry about. On a micro level, each situation is different and I can't imagine each scenario. I'll deal with it when I see it. All this theory and assumptions is just so much BS from mall ninjas. IMHO!
 
Some good advice and some that will get you killed by a guy like me who caries a badge and gun in plain clothes.

As soon as you pull a gun w/o any LE identification you are a suspect/threat until proven otherwise. Be prepared to drop the weapon w/o a word if directed by LE.....assuming they don't shoot you first. Yelling "Police" is not always the best COA for police/agents if it gives up a tactical advantage in a deadly force situation. So, I would not count on hearing "Police, drop the weapon" prior to being shot. Putting down suppression fire (as suggested by someone) will make you just as much a danger to the public as the BG and probably get you shot by LE.

I have thought this situation through a number of times and there is no easy answer.....especially if my family is with me (probably only reason I would be in a mall). The FIRST thing I would do is get my family clear. I personally would engage because that is what I have been trained to do. However, I would (if possible) get my badge high on my chest, because COM is generally going to be the point of aim by the responding officers.

Unless you are tactically trained and can end it with one good shot and holster, a running gun battle or showing a gun w/o any LE ID is not a good COA and confuses who is who. Most likely you are not mentally, physically or tactically prepared for this kind of situation unless you have been trained. No matter how good a shot you think you are, this is not a paper punching exercise like at the range and a whole number of physiological factors come into play when you get shot at for real. These factors will hugely impact everything you do from breathing to thought process to marksmanship. A 30 second firefight will feel like you were on the tread mill full speed for 30 minutes. Those who have been in combat know what I am talking about. When the thought process is blurred in the "heat of battle" you fight instinctively the way you are trained.....or without training you may vapor lock and die. Just having a gun does not necessarily make you value added to the situation. Also, unless you are in a LE uniform, even with a badge on your chest, it is still 50/50 you will be shot by LE when you pull a gun in plain clothes.

Most can save themselves in active shooter situations by simply closing and locking a door. I am not saying you should stand by and watch if you can do otherwise....that is a decision you will have to make individually. However, there is much to be said for maintaining a defensive position and calling 911. I am just pointing out some of the realities of pulling a gun in this type of situation. I hope this helps you to make an informed decision.
 
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The shooter fired 8 rounds and killed three and wounded five. All of the victims were moving
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From that highschool shooting referenced..

This from a .22 ruger.

I'm new in the market for a CCW gun and I was just thinking if I had been at that mall with a gun, would I have stopped this crazy?

It also made me think that along with the advice of others on a CCW, the biggest you can carry the better. Something that could respond to a man size target from 30-50 yards.
If I was in the right spot (or wrong) and had my gun, I would first take cover and then see if I could stop him. I am not the type to run away unless of course I had my kids with me.

So many variables.

Didn't they say 10,000 people at the mall and no one aside from an unarmed vendor on the main floor who followed the shooter but of course too late for the two who were shot and killed.
 
Was taught by Detroit LE that the only time you draw your handgun is when you are under imminent deadly threat and that when you draw, you fire immdediately and quickly re-holster because you might get (mistakenly) shot by a uniform or off-duty LEO.

"...Cover. Draw. Cap the SOB." [Stressfire]

If there's time.

If I am in the perp's face when the perp pulls out his firearm, (as in the video) then must go Wyatt Earp mode instantaneously.

A difficult, challenging place to be
 
here is an interesting article from the local news here in Portland.

Active shooter at Clackamas Town Center: What would you have done?

And no matter who you talk to – the Department of Homeland Security, FEMA or the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office – the basic message is the same: Run, hide, or -- as a last resort -- fight.
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* If you can't run or hide, take action: As a last resort, and only when your life is in imminent danger, attempt to disrupt and/or incapacitate the shooter.
– FEMA/Countermeasure Consulting Group
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I'm not suggesting anything but in regards what to do even the authorities understand the position of the civilian.
 
I emailed the reporter on the CCW citizen at the mall and he replied:

Glad you emailed me. I have no reason to believe this story is inaccurate or dramatized.
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The story is an actual report, not some internet hoax or rumor.
 
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