Accuracy question???
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Jim Watson
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Or is it better to respond to loaded questions than to suffer the slings and arrows of Internet Boredom Syndrome?
Actually, I have bumped up against equipment limitations on a couple of occasions and benefited from buying my way out.
Actually, I have bumped up against equipment limitations on a couple of occasions and benefited from buying my way out.
IMO you can't buy shooting skill. If you have poor technique the finest rifle will perform poorly. Practicing good technique ALOT is the only route.
Seems people in general think you can buy, say, a good 50 cal and just step out and hit things a mile away but anybody who shoots with any regularity knows better. It is a fairly easy thing for a novice to hit the bullseye @ 100 yrds from a rest with a scoped rifle but to be truly a "master" takes a lot of hard, tho enjoyable and satisfying, work.
There are no shortcuts.
Edit...... By no means am I implying I'm any kind of master!
Seems people in general think you can buy, say, a good 50 cal and just step out and hit things a mile away but anybody who shoots with any regularity knows better. It is a fairly easy thing for a novice to hit the bullseye @ 100 yrds from a rest with a scoped rifle but to be truly a "master" takes a lot of hard, tho enjoyable and satisfying, work.
There are no shortcuts.
Edit...... By no means am I implying I'm any kind of master!
okiewita40
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It always has and always will take practice to get the proper shooting mechanics and breathing in order to shoot well. Most all modern firearms will shoot better than most shooters are capable of shooting.
warbirdlover
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If you start out with shooting skill and then a rifle or whatever won't shoot you've either got to put some money into it and hope it works or get something else. I've found if a rifle isn't good out of the box get something else. You paid good money for something that shoots and you shouldn't have to fix it or improve it.
Great question I think it depnds on the expectations. Example
I have a 700 VLS 223 that shoots 1/2" 5 shot groups
I have a Win 70 243 ftw. that shoots 1 1/2 groups ( very light barrel)
I have a Win 70 ftw 270 that also is a 1 1/2" gun ( Very light Barrel)
My 77 Hawkeye 7MM-08 is a 1" gun
My 700 7mm mag is a 1" gun
I had a Savage 22-250 that was a 3/4" gun it did not meet expectations.
I had a T/C pro hunter 25-06 that was a 1 1/2" gun did not meet expectations
I have a few others that either meet or exceed expectations.
My next rifle will be a 25-06 and the expectations will be 3/4" or better. I've learned a long time ago if a rifle does not shot up to my expectations it needs a new home.
I know a guy at our range that has several fine shooting rifles but his hunting rifle is a BAR 30-06 and when he sights it in for deer he uses a 9" paper plate as a target if it puts 3 shots in the plate its good enough at 100 yds.
That seems to meet his expectations, however it's not mine.
How much are we willing to spend to meet our expectations?
I agree with warbirdlover if it don't shoot get rid of it.
I know guys that spend as much to get a rifle to shoot as what they paid for the rifle that does not happen at my house.
I have a 700 VLS 223 that shoots 1/2" 5 shot groups
I have a Win 70 243 ftw. that shoots 1 1/2 groups ( very light barrel)
I have a Win 70 ftw 270 that also is a 1 1/2" gun ( Very light Barrel)
My 77 Hawkeye 7MM-08 is a 1" gun
My 700 7mm mag is a 1" gun
I had a Savage 22-250 that was a 3/4" gun it did not meet expectations.
I had a T/C pro hunter 25-06 that was a 1 1/2" gun did not meet expectations
I have a few others that either meet or exceed expectations.
My next rifle will be a 25-06 and the expectations will be 3/4" or better. I've learned a long time ago if a rifle does not shot up to my expectations it needs a new home.
I know a guy at our range that has several fine shooting rifles but his hunting rifle is a BAR 30-06 and when he sights it in for deer he uses a 9" paper plate as a target if it puts 3 shots in the plate its good enough at 100 yds.
That seems to meet his expectations, however it's not mine.
How much are we willing to spend to meet our expectations?
I agree with warbirdlover if it don't shoot get rid of it.
I know guys that spend as much to get a rifle to shoot as what they paid for the rifle that does not happen at my house.
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big al hunter
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I would say you must master your rifle. Because until you have mastered it the extra money spent was wasted. Some of the best shooters I have were the least expensive. Practice Practice Practice. When the group sizes stop shrinking then the wallet must start shrinking to get the groups shrinking again.
If you feel that the groups are good when they are done shrinking spend no more.
More guns is not a bad thing
If you feel that the groups are good when they are done shrinking spend no more. More guns is not a bad thingThis one. Life's out-comes tend to be better with lots of money. Got enough money and you get to shoot at game 40" away from a bench. Got enough money and you can have your body guards hold down the punk while you put a cap in his buttocks.
Got enough money and you can spend hours a day at the range or build your own range.
Fun to sneer at people with money though.
JMR40
JMR40 hits the nail on the head with his comment.
I would like to say - Buy the best equipment you can afford Rifle/Scope combo.
Give yourself a chance at exellent results.
Sometimes low cost guns can be tackdrivers, but this is not typical.
Also it is much easier selling higher end equipment if you find shooting is not for you.
Welcome JD
JMR40 hits the nail on the head with his comment.
I would like to say - Buy the best equipment you can afford Rifle/Scope combo.
Give yourself a chance at exellent results.
Sometimes low cost guns can be tackdrivers, but this is not typical.
Also it is much easier selling higher end equipment if you find shooting is not for you.
Welcome JD
That doesn't take a lot of money, all that takes is putting in your time, retiring to the country and start shooting. I did and I'm certainly not rich.
The only thing that interferes with my shooting is my Granddaughters volleyball and basketball. I wouldn't miss one of her games for all the guns in the country.
I guess I take that back, every time I show up my GD runs up and gives me a hug. All the girls on her team and her coaches call me "grandpa"
So I lied, I'm the richest guy in the world.
But money had nothing to do with good shooting. Take you itty bitty sub minute groups you see posted all over the Internet. Then go to a 1000 yard match, you wont find many cleaned targets, and the X-10 ring is 2 MOA.
I have a CMP (then DCM) M1 I paid $112.70 for. It shoots better then 3 MOA. The X-10 ring on the CMP GSM Garand Target is 3.5 MOA. I can't clean those targets, its not the guns fault, its because I'm too lazy to put in the time and effort to shoot the Garand.
Don't blame lack of money for the lack of you're abilities. That's a weak man's excuse.
True, but a poorly skilled shooter will shoot better with good gear.
Think about it this way. You have a firearm and ammo combination that will shoot 3 MOA. Put it in the hands of a person that has an error / wobble zone of 3 MOA. That combination will print 6 MOA on paper.
Same person with the 3 MOA error / wobble zone and put a 1 MOA firearm in his hands. He now goes from 6 MOA to 4 MOA on paper.
To get good, you first need a firearm that is good. If you have a poor firearm, you’ll never know what’s to blame, the shooter or the firearm.
I think, without knowing, you are proving my point. You have a 3 MOA rifle and a 6 MOA shooter, then the shooter should work on making his 3 MOA rifle a 3 MOA Rifle, when he can constantly shoot his 3 MOA rifle then and only then should he move on.
Wasn't it Thomas Edison who said "opportunity is missed by most people because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work"
Kraigwy, I am replying to this comment here…
Good equipment is very important. You can not shoot good targets without good equipment. Nope, sorry, it cannot be done. If your gun is shooting 4, 5, or 6 inch groups, you are going to have a lot of trouble putting together a good target. But if your gun is shooting 1 or 2 inch groups the opportunity for a good target is there, then it rests on the shooter.
Say you are an excellent shooter. You can hold 2 MOA. You are using a firearm that can only shoot 4 MOA. You will shoot 6 MOA on a target.
Say I’m a less then average shooter. I can only hold 4 MOA. But I have a firearm and ammo combination that can shoot 1 MOA. I will shoot 5 MOA on a target.
I am no where near as good a shooter as you, but I can beat you in competition. Your 6 MOA to my 5 MOA. So you see, it’s possible for a poorly skilled shooter to beat a skilled shooter if the poorly skilled shooter has good gear. Good equipment is very important. You will never know your full potential without good equipment.
Good equipment is very important. You can not shoot good targets without good equipment. Nope, sorry, it cannot be done. If your gun is shooting 4, 5, or 6 inch groups, you are going to have a lot of trouble putting together a good target. But if your gun is shooting 1 or 2 inch groups the opportunity for a good target is there, then it rests on the shooter.
Say you are an excellent shooter. You can hold 2 MOA. You are using a firearm that can only shoot 4 MOA. You will shoot 6 MOA on a target.
Say I’m a less then average shooter. I can only hold 4 MOA. But I have a firearm and ammo combination that can shoot 1 MOA. I will shoot 5 MOA on a target.
I am no where near as good a shooter as you, but I can beat you in competition. Your 6 MOA to my 5 MOA. So you see, it’s possible for a poorly skilled shooter to beat a skilled shooter if the poorly skilled shooter has good gear. Good equipment is very important. You will never know your full potential without good equipment.
savagelover
New member
I agree with the guy who can hit a paper plate every time..At 200 yards this is plenty good for deer hunting..Do that off hand is really pretty good I think...
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