a reminder about why we shouldn't forget to carry!!!

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hi guys, what I wanted to say in my post is not against carry, or how cool it could have been to shoot this guy. My point is that in this situation we were lucky that
1: the shotgun was unloaded
2: the guy didn't had the balls to pull the trigger if the shotgun had been loaded.
If we were carying at this time, at the first moment he aimed at the dogs we would have draw our guns and ordered him to drop his shotgun.
What I wanted to point is imagine if the guy was drunk and the shotgun loaded, a very nice and innocent sunday could turn in a nightmare because none of us were armed.
If we were armed and the guy had bad intentions at least one of us could survive and save the kids and wifes.
 
The hunter should have been arrested on the spot. Brandashing a shotgun is a felony.

The point of carrying all the time is that you never know when you might need it. Granted in this situation, the confrontation was resolved peacefully, but had it been slightly different, a ccw could have saved a life/ lives. What if the shotgun was loaded, and he started firing? A concealed weapon could have possibly been the victims' last resort in surviving the situation. Point being, you never know what type of situation you may face on a given day, so its better to have and not need, then need and not have.

As a side note, its important to train and have the right mindset to know when and how to properly defend yourself with deadly force.
 
Loaded or not that dip $hit should not have pointed his gun at your dog, and definately not other humans... You should file a complaint or something against him, thats just not safe or smart.

There are alot of situations that can be resolved without shooting, but, there are also some that cant, determining that is the hard part.

Im all for carrying. 10000000000%
 
Pulling a pistol out in any situation like this would be the dumbest thing you could possibly do. Why is this an example of why it's a good idea to carry?
 
if he shot and missed you then what? wait for the reload? :rolleyes: This is a great exaple as to why you should carry, incase he had a different intention.
 
I think all persons involved should be thankful to be alive at this point. Mr. Shotgun clearly had a moment of bad decision and had any of the Walking Party had their CCW on them....

Mr. Shotgun is definetly in the wrong. "Never point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot" that alone is grounds for self defense. How do we know if a weapon pointed at us is loaded or not? And who in their right mind is going to ask "ugh, sir, is that 12 guage you have pointed at me loaded? and if so, with what kind of ammo"
 
Mr. Shotgun, out in the fields walking, was probably small game or bird hunting.

He probably had #7 or smaller shot loads.

While any gun pointed at me is considered a potentially lethal threat, I would expect to immediately be able to return fire if shot by such a gun from further than 25 yards in this particular type of situation.

In this case I would not end up firing first, but I would be sure to be the guy firing the last shot.

Hence, +1 to carrying. All the time. And situational awareness on top of it.
 
We don't need to explain to you that what he did was unlawful. This goes beyond "brandishing" . . . Pointing the gun at you or the dog is "menacing" -- and in this state, lawful justification for use of lethal force in defense.

The guy needs to go to court on this one. At the very least he needs to lose his hunting license, put him on probation and take his gun away.
 
We are only hearing one side of this. What KIND of dogs are involved in this?

How did the guy point the gun at the dog? How did he point it at you?

What did he say?

How fast did all this happen?
 
There's no human way possible to know in advance that the gun was not loaded. If someone was carrying and shot Mr. Shotgun after having it pointed at them, would it be tragic? Absolutely.

But would it be the "fault" of the shooter because he shot an unarmed man? Absolutely not! Hindsight is 20/20, of course. When you know after the fact that he's essentially unarmed, it seems like overreaction to draw a gun. But what if the OP didn't have a gun and this guy was a wacko intent on shooting them all? You don't know in advance.

Reminds me of the situation in my old neighborhood about three years ago. We heard screaming in the front yard. I went out to see what was going on, and 2 girls were hiding behind my truck screaming, "He has a gun! He has a gun!"

I looked up to see the teen from across the street waving a rifle around. I ran back in the house, put the kids and wife at the back of the house, and called 911. When they got there NINE MINUTES LATER, they dealt with the kid and came over to talk to us. The LEO told me, "It's ONLY an Airsoft gun with the orange cap painted black. You were never in any danger." With a tone that said I was an idiot for calling.

Sure, when you are heavily armed and brought backup, when you find out it was an Airsoft, it seems a little silly. But I just saw a normally rowdy kid waving a rifle around and friends of him screaming, "He's got a gun. He's going to shoot us!"
 
At the same time I also wonder why he would feel the need to point the shotgun at the dog... I have been on the other side of this, an old guy with his three rottweilers that he let roam through the woods, and his dogs would chase and bite anything they could... I was in a tree when the guy came up kicking at the dog below that was trying to bite my feet and he said that he would kill anyone that touched his dogs...

So I am not quick to judge with something like this. Pet owners who have gone before you have not exactly tread lightly.
 
I'm generally in agreement that carrying even when you don't perceive a threat is a good idea...the kids of Columbine, that Luby's in Texas, or any of the mall shooting victims probably weren't expecting to die, they were going to "normal" places.

I'm a little fuzzy on the use of deadly force to protect an animal though...I'm not a dog or cat guy so I can't understand that connection. I'm not sure that drawing down on a guy who's pointing a gun at a dog you've raised and bred for ten years would fly in a court of law...even here in TX.

But as soon as you saw down the barrel of that shotgun the whole story changed. In hindsight it's easy to say pulling or at least indexing to a concealed or openly carried handgun was over-reacting but at that moment in time you had no clue if his chamber was loaded, if his safety was on...or basically anything.
 
Where did this take place? Some kind of public ground or what?

If I found a party of people walking on my personal property, I'd probably be slightly upset, but not to the point of pointing my boomstick anywhere near them. I'd probably politely inform them they were on private property--my private property where I commonly shoot and hunt, which makes it rather unsafe for unannounced visitors (should I be pointing in the wrong direction unintentionally).

If it's public ground, I'd ask where the meth lab was. I did some shooting on a public range on public hunting grounds over the summer. Once in a while some people would ride their four-wheelers on the dirt road (safely behind the firing line) that goes behind the range and a few miles to the west. I never felt the need to point anything at them but a friendly wave. I waved so they would know that I was paying attention and taking care not to point anything at them as they rode east, parallel to the range.

Anyone who automatically goes to Defcon 1 on public ground is up to no good.
 
I'm a little fuzzy on the use of deadly force to protect an animal though...I'm not a dog or cat guy so I can't understand that connection. I'm not sure that drawing down on a guy who's pointing a gun at a dog you've raised and bred for ten years would fly in a court of law...even here in TX.
Click to expand...

In MI at least animals are largely legally considered property. You can't use lethal force to defend property in any situation (castle doctrine excluded).

If you feel legitimately and immediately threatened by an animal, you have the legal ability to stop an animal using lethal force. But I seriously doubt you can use lethal force to defend the dog as an owner and not go to jail over it.

Pet lovers may not like it, but the killing of an animal by itself is not legally murder, or even serious bodily harm, therefore you cannot legally use lethal force to stop it.
 
No leash laws out there?

My thoughts EXACTLY White Rice!!!

Here's a novel idea, when on PUBLIC land with your dog, and your dog is NOT hunting or involved in search or rescue work etc. , TRY A LEASH!!

There are ALWAYS two sides to the story and I bet we are not hearing all of the "one side".

MANY hunters have thousands --some have 10's of thousands of dollars in their hunting dogs.
I have THOUSANDS of dollars in my dogs.
If I was out with my brittany and some dog- suddenly ran after my dog, you can bet I would be ready to protect my investment and FRIEND.
Seeing the guy was a police officer, I am going to take a guess that he was not walking a miniature poodle.
I have Rottweilers, and they are NEVER permitted to run free anywhere but on my property, my friends property or on the training field---EVERYWHERE ELSE, they are leashed---and I never had a problem in 38 years of Rottie ownership.
I get enough looks and comments when they are leashed---if I let them run free I can only imagine the grief I'd get!!
Just the way it is---nobody is special in my book and either are their dogs---your dog is loose and comes running after my dog and acts the least bit aggressive, probably be a dead dog.

"The man pointed his shotgun at the dog and we ordered him to stop, there was no danger the dog were just playing,"

NO DANGER in who's mind??
How many of you ORDERED him to stop??
Did he feel threatened when multiple people started to yell at him??
Are there leash laws in your area??
If not, what about some plain old common sense??

I'm GLAD you weren't carrying weapon.

Invest in a six foot leather leash,, WAAAY cheaper in the long run.
 
The fact is this guy COULD have shot the dog and turned the gun on the people. To me, this points up the fact that those of us who can should ALWAYS be pack'n. There just are no "safe places" in America anymore.
 
How many of these threads do we have rattling around here where the OP says he wishes he was carrying in situation xyz and there are several pages of replys telling him "you lived, so I guess you didn't really need a gun" or "you would have been wrong to shoot that guy anyway"?

I think most people read these posts and think "gee, it must have been a little uncomfortable having a shotgun pointed at you" or something along those lines. I must have missed the part where the op stated he'd of shot that guy dead right there if he had his gun. I have to think that ALL of us here think it is a good idea to own a gun and MOST of us here think it is a good idea to carry a gun. This isn't tactics and training, the OP just stated that he wished he had his gun sheesh.
 
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