a police officer stationed on school grounds

In the course of my review, I also noted that the existing wings had all concrete block walls in the corridors, but the new wings were planned to have glass sidelights adjacent to each classroom door. This was just a few years after Columbine and security was (supposedly) a high priority. In fact, I was briefed that the school had an emergency lock-down procedure. So I asked what the point was of locking the classroom doors if there was a glass panel right next to the doorknob that a shooter could kick or shoot out. The architect's response? "We like them. We think they add a sense of openness to the classrooms."
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The other problem with the whole lock down procedure is by the time the report comes in that there's an active shooter, he can already be in a classroom. We went through a lockdown plan at a local college I used to attend. After a shooting is reported, the office announces it to the professors and they lock the door and turn off the lights. Great. My question to the professor was, "What if he's in here? Who gets up to lock the door?". :confused:

I don't disagree with it, but it still leaves the potential to cost 30 or 40 lives.
 
Armed security, armed teachers, unarmed students? One wacked out adult in a classroom with 6 year olds. What could go wrong there? Seems the answer won't come easy.
 
As i said in another post unfortunately i don't think there is much you can do to stop this type of incident. You can have airport type security at schools and armed guards. The only thing that will achieve is the shooter will go to a easier target school-buses-cinemas-shopping malls etc.

What the prime minister said here after a shooting incident.

Quote. He added: "You can't legislate to stop a switch flicking in someone's head and this sort of dreadful action taking place."
 
We are up to 2 SROs (school resource officers) in my local district which turns out to have 37 educational facilities. The local PD has a total of less than 100 officers including the SROs. The SROs are the most trained officers in the city and as one told me, he has the best job in the world, unless something happens. The SROs don't do anything not at schools other than training when school is in session (some holiday and summer schedule exceptions do exist, however) and holidays and summer often involve additional training.

In a crisis, these guys don't call 911. They don't radio for backup. They don't barricade doors. They don't coordinate incoming officers. They don't pull downed teachers and students from the line of fire. Their #1 job is to "squash" the threat as quickly as possible and without much regard for their own safety. This is done whilst being equipped with only typical patrol gear worn on the body. He can tackle, baton, pepper spray, strike, kick, or shoot the threat(s), and like the rest of those in the school, help for him comes in X number of minutes when the regular responders arrive.

Like the SRO said, it is a great job unless he has to respond and then it becomes an exceptionally high risk job.

The problem is, there is only a 1 in 19 chance a SRO is at a school here if a shooting should taking place. We need one at each school. We don't need "police stations" at each school, but definitely could use a SRO at one, but that would mean increasing the local department by 40%. I think it is a fine idea, but who will pay for it? Nobody likes funding the cops as it is.

If you think about it, the next time you go to argue about the taxes on your property being too high, you are helped reduce local funding that includes funding for the police (or does in my state).
 
One image you have to overcome is the idea that anyone with either a repeating rifle with a high capacity magazine or any rifle with a telescopic sight is a potential mass murderer or a sniper, which is a sense, they are. Most such people are, up to a point, neither of those things. Then something snaps. These are usually not the same people who rob banks, unless I have a mistaken impression.

Once, almost at the same time Lindburgh flew the Atlantic, someone blew up a school with dynamite. Apparently it was easy to get dynamite at the time. Then, quietly, it was made more difficult to obtain explosives. Do you suppose there was a public outcry over that at the time, in the pre-internet age?
 
In another post I detailed my experience as a security guard at an Arizona School.

The administration was not interested in security. The principle's main objective was to sweep all problems under the table so he could get a superintendents job. They prevented students and individuals who entered the campus from being charged in assault, one student was hospitalized, and arson cases.

The Police School Resource officer was an individual who had proven herself unsuitable for work on the street. She froze in a number of situations and left her fellow officers in danger.

Security Officers were instructed to Observe and Report. We referred to these instructions as "Run and Hide".

The one good thing was that the locks on classroom doors worked. This was to prevent theft and vandalism, not to protect the students in a lock down.

Several teachers came to me and asked my advice on how to protect their students in case of an incident. My response was to lock the doors, get away from the windows and if an intruder should gain access use the ABC Fire extinguisher.

ABC Fire Extinguishers are an outstanding defensive device. It causes anyone exposed to a blast to cough uncontrollably and the powder will cause blindness.
 
In regards to the OP's first post.


That is exactly the norm for every Jr. High and Highschool in my area.

Local PD has 2-4 year rotations of the special assignment-"School Resource Officer"
 
A lot of school already have a cop stationed on campus; he (or she) needs to be armed. Whether or not there's a real cop on the campus, deputize at least one principal or vice principal. They wear a concealed handgun and have access to a locked-up rifle. Then just encourage any teacher who has a CCW and wants to to carry -- the gun needs to be carried on their person. And provide free training.

This would not cost hardly anything. The answer is not arming all the teachers, just allow the few that want to be armed to do, so and give them some training. Then stop obsessing about it and get back to teaching :)
 
Security Officers were instructed to Observe and Report. We referred to these instructions as "Run and Hide".
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Yeah, that won't do any good. I think the difference between your experience and mine is that our officers operate independently from the schools, but in conjunction with them. They answer to the PD, not to the school district, and they aren't security guards, but full blown and extensively trained police officers.
 
I spent 8 of my 26 years in law enforcement as School Resource Officer in my county at a middle school and a high school. We spent a lot of time training on Active Shooter training with law enforcement and the schools. We also incorporated the teachers on planning days with training scenarios so they were familiar with the response concepts. There was a lot of time, effort and funds spent on trying to be as prepared as possible but we all know what happens to the plan on first contact. Luckily I had no incidents while in this position. The SROs are funded by the Sheriff's Office and the School Board splitting the cost. The unfortunate aspect is the elementary schools do not have full time officers. I'm sure that will change in the near future since there is an event to justify the money now. Oh, and I haven't met many administrators that I think would be competent enough to carry a firearm. They were a different breed of people, not bad but different.
 
Putting uniformed officers at the door, or in a static office would just make them a target....probably the first target.

Allowing teachers who can, and want to complete a training program to carry guns at school is a good idea in my oinion.
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Surprise is a Force Multiplier, IIRC. Surpising and killing the Security Officer would be the first part of a sicko's plan.....

These nuts generally fold at the fist sign of armed resistance, because they lose control at that point. They want to play God/Play out their sick little plan...... Look what happened in Oregon.

That armed resistance needs to happen ASAP, as it disrupts the monster's plan, dispelling his fantasy that he is "all powerful" and that he can exact whatever horrors he wants to ..... so the frustrated nut usually checks out at that point. Otherwise, he gets to kill and destroy until he feels he's done enough to make himself famous ..... or runs out of ammo.....
 
Tom Gresham's Truth Squad e-mail had it right:

Wouldn't it have been wonderful if a police officer with a gun had been able to shoot this murderer before he killed so many children?


Wouldn't it have been wonderful if a trained security officer with a gun had been able to shoot this murderer before he killed so many children?


Wouldn't it have been wonderful if a trained volunteer with a gun had been able to shoot this murderer before he killed so many children?


Wouldn't it have been wonderful if a trained teacher or administrator with a gun had been able to shoot this murderer before he killed so many children?


If you agree with the first, what would prevent you from agreeing with the last?
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Taxpayers don't want to pay for another Government worker, the current sentiment is to fire all Government workers and let the market figure it out.

Remember the whole budget problem in the US is due to teacher's unions?

Now by re instituting slavery, we could enslave people, make them into Government workers , and it won’t cost anything.

Except we would not be able to trust them with guns…:rolleyes:

Well, I guess the kiddies are going to have to learn to duck and cover.
 
jason41987 said:
my proposal is to use an office inside the school itself to be used as the office of a law enforcement officer to do his office and paperwork remotely... this would allow one law enforcement officer per school to be on grounds at all time, performing his normal duties but being close by in the event he is needed.... then we dont have to arm teachers, or hire security, we can simply let the police be closer
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Economically impossible. Logistically impossible. There aren't enough officers and there isn't enough money to hire enough officers.

Logically, a waste of money even if it were possible. Far more children are killed in school related activities, such as riding "non-bus" school vehicles, than are killed by shooters. Multiples more are killed, like 20 times as many. The money would be better spent making sure every kid rode and actual bus, every time.
 
Putting uniformed officers at the door, or in a static office would just make them a target....probably the first target.
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No necessarily -- if the bad guy has to shoot his way through a locked door, that gives the officer a little time to respond. You put the officer out right on the front line, yeah he's just a target unless he gets lucky.

You really need to have layers of protection.
 
I am persuaded that allowing trained and willing teachers to carry concealed is the best way to go. They need more training than the average CCW class, however. I do not think the marksmanship requirements are high enough normally.

In addition there needs to be training in when to shoot, and to try to make the teachers think about whether or not they are ready to shoot to save children.

Jerry
 
The reality here would be if they won't arm a pilot in a locked compartment they won't let a teacher walk around campus with one.
 
"""The entrance doors are all glass. They get locked after the end of school bus arrival but, as shown at Sandy Hook, like locks, glass doors are for honest people. Anyone who wants to get in can just shoot out the glass.

In the course of my review, I also noted that the existing wings had all concrete block walls in the corridors, but the new wings were planned to have glass sidelights adjacent to each classroom door. This was just a few years after Columbine and security was (supposedly) a high priority. In fact, I was briefed that the school had an emergency lock-down procedure. So I asked what the point was of locking the classroom doors if there was a glass panel right next to the doorknob that a shooter could kick or shoot out. The architect's response? "We like them. We think they add a sense of openness to the classrooms.""" Aguila Blanca

I could not agree more, all windows in all schools on ground floor level should be taken out and boarded up or enclosed,,,all classrooms should have a heavy steel lockable door that is firearm resistent from the classroom to the interior of the school and from the classroom to the outside,,,if a shooter tries to shoot open the interior door the teacher leads the class outside through the other door to the outside and then locks the door from the outside, if a shooter tries to shoot open the exterior door from the outside then the teacher leads the class through the interior door to the interior of the school and then locks that door from the inside interior or hallway. All doors should be heavy steel with no glass and as firerarm resistant as possible and lockable from both sides, so the teacher after leading the class through the door could lock it from the other side. There should be no windows in the classroom.

The school should have only one entrance to the public and that as a choke point with a heavy steel firearm resistant door and security cameras and with a police officer or security guard or guards defending that door with ballistic armor and sidearms and access to long arms, shotguns and rifles. Just inside that door would be a metal detector everyone entering would have to walk through.

Will this cost a fortune to retrofit every school in America this way,,,you bet it will.
 
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In fact, I was briefed that the school had an emergency lock-down procedure.
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More and more, I find myself having deep problems with lock-downs, and the fact that once the door is forced open by whatever means, well, its like the old fish in a barrel quote. Id more like to see some thought to an emergency evacuation to get people out of the small rooms, and spread out outside. Makes for a less target rich enviroment, and gives folks a fighting, or at least running chance to save theirself, instead of all huddled in a corner or closet inside.

It could be taught along the lines of a modified fire drill. Besides if there is a danger such as a fire, we teach staff and students to leave the building in which the danger is, and seek safety outside. Why should we teach the opposite for a shooter, and have them stay inside the building, locked-down or not, and be sitting ducks?
 
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