A "Helping the Cops" Scenario ...

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Sorry, gonna call BS on that one. Sure if you are given an order in the mil. you are gonna follow it...to a point.
If ordered to "step on that land mine" You get my drift.
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Come on, seriously?

I was thinking more along the lines of "get yer butts into that building full of insurgents and secure it" or "go do your job and arrest the bad guy". How about riding in a higgins boat to a beach reinforced with battalions of angry Germans, concertina wire and machine guns? At some point people in dangerous jobs have to get out there and take risks to get the dirtbags off the street.
 
The deputies were following up on a domestic assault report they had taken hours earlier, and located the suspect at a gun club in Crestview. The suspect was in the parking lot standing next to his truck. Deputy Lopez and Deputy York approached the suspect, had a brief conversation with him, and then informed him he was going to be arrested. As the deputies moved to handcuff the him, he became uncooperative and began to resist arrest. Deputy York fired his Taser (conducted energy device) and hit the suspect. The suspect dropped to the ground during the five-second jolt of electricity. When the Taser cycle ended, the suspect immediately drew a concealed handgun and opened fire. Deputy Lopez was able to radio for assistance while he and Deputy York engaged the suspect in a gun battle.
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Emphasis mine... As you see no mention of visible weapon. And he drew a concealed weapon to kill the officers.
From this link...
http://odmp.org/officer/19925-deputy-sheriff-warren-(skip)-york
Posted on page 4 #88.
He was not between the firing line and parking area. He was standing at his truck no guns in hand. Initially cooperative.
No trouble cuffing unless you count the resistance met with a taser.
And yes, this range is in the boonies. But it is a 2 lane U.S. Highway with many high speed, wide radius curves where a high speed pursuit would likely result in a head on collision with an oncoming vehicle doing a minimum of 55 mph. No way to get traffic stopped less than 18 miles (intersection where chase ended) from the range. No way to get officers in front of chase right away as the area from the range to the chase end location is not heavily patrolled due to the peaceful rural setting typically in place.
Brent
 
He was not between the firing line and parking area. He was standing at his truck no guns in hand. Initially cooperative.
No trouble cuffing unless you count the resistance met with a taser.
And yes, this range is in the boonies. But it is a 2 lane U.S. Highway with many high speed, wide radius curves where a high speed pursuit would likely result in a head on collision with an oncoming vehicle doing a minimum of 55 mph. No way to get traffic stopped less than 18 miles (intersection where chase ended) from the range. No way to get officers in front of chase right away as the area from the range to the chase end location is not heavily patrolled due to the peaceful rural setting typically in place.
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Well, that changes everything then. Officers followed the book, charged into the face of danger to arrest the BG at the perfect location before he could get away.

If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it, (happens a lot)
 
John Dillinger killed a cop and he was pretty cool.

If the guy shot the cops then ran away Id let him be, if the guy start looking for other people to shoot then I would step in.
 
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John Dillinger killed a cop and he was pretty cool.

If the guy shot the cops then ran away Id let him be, if the guy start looking for other people to shoot then I would step in.
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Are you serious with this? The police go into harms way everyday, and contrary to Hollywood & the news most of them are honest, hardworking, and trying to keep their communties a safe place to live.

To think that anybody, including John Dillinger, should be given a pass for murder simply because their victim was a police officer is obscene.

As far as your "cool" guy Dillinger, he was a school dropout who joined the Navy to stay out of trouble with the law and then went AWOL and was dishonorably discharged. He was a loser that couldn't keep his marriage together, couldn't hold a job, and could barely keep from getting arrested for much of his "career". His gang is credited with murdering at least 10 people. I wonder who many widows and orphans they left in their wake?
 
As far as the thread scenario, one thing I would want to consider is are you involving yourself in an attack that is in progress or one that has already been completed and the suspect is trying to flee. Most gunfights are fast, and will be over quickly, so you're likely to realize that the police are down as the suspect is fleeing the scene.

If the suspect is fleeing the scene then I think there is nothing wrong with being a good witness and rendering first aid. That said I like a previous post that mentions raining fire on the suspect vehicle. At the least you damage the vehicle and make it more recognizable and at best you put a GoldDot through the suspects medulla (this is of course after considering backstop/bystanders, etc).

For those of you who don't want to engage the suspect, consider this twist. If the officers are both down, but the suspect is still engaged with them and not attempting to flee, how would you feel if he walked up on his wounded, incapacitated victims and executed them with a finishing shot to the head? If the police officers are down and the suspects isn't fleeing, I am likely to start shooting.
 
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With the situation you described, one does not know for sure that the cops were the GGs and the shooter was the BG. I'm serious. Criminals have been known to impersonate police from time to time.

If I was a mastermind for some gang I was in, I might consider a shooting range a pretty good place to score some guns. Coming off as cops could "disarm" your intended victims so to speak making what would seem like an insane idea all of a sudden not so far fetched. Of course you better hope none of the people there are off duty who know you aren't one, but still. It might be something a gang desperate for guns would send some low level members to try for them. If they pull it off great, if not, there are others to replace them.

But, assuming you know the cops are for real, then I would say immediately cover the BG with your gun while you yourself try to get behind some cover. You being alive is as much as evidence against the BG, so it is very reasonable to consider he may go for you next to erase that evidence. Be prepared as you can be. At this point, you have the right to use force to effect a citizens arrest. You directly witnessed someone commit a crime which is an arrestable offense (capital murder of 2 officers). It is not heresay or guesswork. You witnessed it. But, whether you CHOOSE to try and arrest a dangerous criminal with a gun in his hand is something each person has to decide for themselves based upon risk and other factors. Even cops try to get backup before engaging someone like this unless the BG forces the issue on them.
 
Just cause they're pigs dont mean they aren't tryin to screw over on the guy. some places in this country, you are well within your rights to kill anybody who tries to violate your constitutional rights
 
Are you serious with this? The police go into harms way everyday, and contrary to Hollywood & the news most of them are honest, hardworking, and trying to keep their communties a safe place to live.
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I think the question is, are you serious? I didnt know how dangerous the dunken donuts was :eek: Honest? I know cops i get along with, but I would never trust one. Hardworking? Cruisin in a car writing tickets to honest people is damn hard work. trying to keep communities safe? I've seen them runnin around acting like they are doing something important, you know pulling guns on skateboarders, giving tickets keeps us safe from crime, arresting people for self defense. Contrary to belief, cops are as worthless as tits on a bull, I'll take care of myself:)
 
SSilicon, The situation posted about involved 2 uniformed county deputies in a marked patrol car complete with roof rack of lights... Not much reason to believe they were impostors.
Brent
 
Just cause they're pigs dont mean they aren't tryin to screw over on the guy. some places in this country, you are well within your rights to kill anybody who tries to violate your constitutional rights
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What are you Constitutional rights? And which ones are you legally able to use deadly force to protect?

Educate us.
 
SSilicon, The situation posted about involved 2 uniformed county deputies in a marked patrol car complete with roof rack of lights... Not much reason to believe they were impostors.
Brent
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Brent, then go with the second part of my post. I covered it both ways.
 
some places in this country, you are well within your rights to kill anybody who tries to violate your constitutional rights
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OK, I'll bite. Name one state, and provide the proper statute please, that allows you to use deadly force to prevent a violation of your constitutional rights. I bet you can't do it.
 
I think it's safe to say that this one's run its course. Advocating killing "anybody that tries to violate your constitutional rights" certainly does nothing to promote responsible firearms ownership and doesn't put any of us in a good light.

Closed.
 
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