A completely REALISTIC tactical scenario

Respectfully, when in a real life CCW event will you have time to do ALL of that?
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You don't have to do all of it. You can turn around and walk away. OR you can just go up the walk of the nearest house. OR you can..... You don't have to just stand there and wait for this guy to get out of the car and get close to you, you already know that there is a strong potential for trouble based on earlier contact.
 
Just depends on how much crap you like to take.

I, for one, have a problem with letting some jerk feed his ego at my expense. If I am armed and someone wants to jump out of a car and threaten me for simply looking at him then, well... where I come from that's called ****ing with the wrong guy. Let him advance and threaten all he likes while you simply stand there and stare him down without a word. If he gets close enough to make you think he's intent on more than just fanning his tail for the hen then it's time to get a grip on your weapon without yet drawing it and say, "I have a very good reason for not being scared of you. Do you need to see it?" If he continues to strut or takes that as a challenge then let him see it. He made threats and no doubt will be making more as he makes his way over to you. In my state that's reason enough to draw if he's big enough to carry them out.
 
And finally, even if you have the upper hand (ie, a weapon or specialized training/skills), always try to give the idiot trouble-maker a way out in which he can save face. It's called swallowing your ego, but it beats swallowing a stiff sentence from an unsympathetic judge or jury.
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Very true sir. I tip my hat to you. Take care and stay safe.

Biker
 
Suprised That this thread is still active . . .

Guess a can of worms don't die . . . :D


First off: TexasSeaRay that is some darn A+++ advise. Thanks for posting. :)


David Armstrong:

"You don't have to do all of it. You can turn around and walk away. OR you can just go up the walk of the nearest house. OR you can..... You don't have to just stand there and wait for this guy to get out of the car and get close to you, you already know that there is a strong potential for trouble based on earlier contact."

Being that this thread has taken on a life of its own . . . I will begin responding with a greater sense of clarity as oppose to cander.

Any event you can see coming is easily avoided. A car that you have never seen before that comes screeching to a stop carrying an enormous maniac is not something we can prepare for . . . thus why we all carry firearms.

Even though my post was a hypothetical event, I have seen and been through some stuff. And the only other option besides the readiness to fight, is a flight that is so fast and complete that it amounts to dropping everything (puppies included...which is not going to happen) and high tailing it away at full tilt. Then, if you are fast enough, and he has no resolve to chase (or chase you with his car) your safe.

(It should be noted that I am not just making this stuff up either)--[and just to be clear that doesn't mean I was ever chased by a car encase anyone is wondering]


Allot of these scenario's we go over and over more often are not taking into account that there are true maniacs out there. Predators and people that seem to just have no remorse, people that seem to lack a soul. Turing around and walking away is fine if the person is not approaching you, BUT if he is . . . turning and walking is NOT going to end well if someone is coming towards you verbalizing obscenities. (not all of us have navy tattoos LOL! We might be small, old, fat, handicapped . . . who knows. Sometime predators want to save face--but just as often they want to prey on the weak.) And like I said before . . . I really wasn't checking out his girl friend, I just looked and only for a moment. For all I know he was high as a kite. OR as TexasSeaRay said, maybe he was just a predator who felt "eyes upon him." Who knows . . . I really couldn't care less. All I care about is my safety and the safety of my loved ones (puppies included :D)

As for walking to a house: On my roads there are no sidewalks. There are houses spaced by empty lots, and drain off separating the lots from the streets. Walking all away across an empty lot, through the drainage, up the mound to the house, knocking on the door, and waiting for a reply . . . all while a gorilla is closing the distance . . . is not really realistic.

I submit that sometimes we can get lost in scenarios. Its kind of fun sometimes. But there literally are infinite possibilities to any given event. And life rarely imitates what we imagine in our minds . . . If ever.


I like the sound of the tactics that allow for the aggressor to be satisfied and leave. I like that allot actually . . . ;) But when that doesn't happen, being able to turn from sheep to lion in a blink of an eye is a great strategy. I think thats going to be my new staple . . . Thanks Tex . . .:cool:




threegun: ;)
 
Good stuff here. Let's see. Prior to carrying I wasn't a very nice guy. Guy got out of his car in Santa Cruz, CA, after he cut me off, and came towards me. I got out of the car waited...
He came over, started to say something.
I said, more like snarled,

"Let's fight. I didn't get out of the car to talk."

Shut up, glared, and waited...He figured his odds weren't good, got back in the car, and drove away as fast as he could.
Good move on his part.

Recently some persian guy wouldn't let me into traffic, so I moved in anyway. Didn't have any choice, the lane I was in was blocked by construction.
Went through a signal, then the guy cut me off, by cutting across my lane, and banging into the curb in front of me, blocking the lane, forced me into the curb. He got out. I decided I had a few choices.
One, I could flatten him, end up in jail. Two, I could pepper spray him, still probably end up in jail. Third, I could shoot out his tires, and drive off, but, my car is easily identified, and, end up in jail, with more charges, felonies I'm sure, loose my life as I know it.
Fourth wait till he punches me, then pepper spray and shoot him, more jail. Jump in the car, go up on the curb, and leave him and his rather ugly wife sitting there, and not go to jail... I picked the last one...

So, I guess the real point here is the statement,

"An armed society is a polite society."

Having boxed and done martial arts, I enjoy fighting, when I win, and even sometimes when I loose. Most scumbags don't run up against guys that spend 5 days a week in the gym, and fight professionals for fun. None the less, my teachers would rip me a new one, and then take my head off if they felt I was using their art against their principals.

I suggest that the ultimate martial art is CCW, if you know what you are doing. And, with that art, goes the ultimate responsibility.

So, to answer your question: with a gun, retreat is ALWAYS my first option. Get away from the guy, don't say anything, leave. If corned, fight like a cornered cat. Do whatever you have to do to get away from the guy, and run, watching the entire time. If the guy has a weapon, AND HE POINTS IT AT YOU, or starts to, then shoot him.

Recently 3 kids, drunk, pulled into a liquor store I had stupidly parked in front of, hit my car, and walked into the store, with me watching the entire thing. I tried to take pictures with my cell phone, got the license, but couldn't ID the kids later. The kids ran in the store, jumped back in the car, and drove off. I did not spray them with pepper spray, I did not drop all three of them on the spot, nor did I pull my .357 and shoot them. I did NOT go to jail, either...I did not get sued...either.
 
HOLY ROAD RAGE SOCRATES! :p


Wow . . . glade I don't drive with you. :D


Great advise though. Next time I won't post a scenario in such a good mood . . . way to much room for interpretation. ;)
 
New version of the senario people . . .

1.)You're walking on the street. (Near to your home but there is not really much around.)

2.) Your alone.

3.) To the left there is the road, to the right palm trees and underbrush so think if you jumped in you could almost bounce right back (and get cut up in the process.)

4.) A car you haven't seen before comes down the corner road. You look to see who's inside.

5.) Big shaved head dude speaks some obscenities before his car screeches to a halt very near to to you.

6.) He gets out, (more obscenities) and is approaching steadily with a enraged expression.

7.) In your right hand is a leash leading to a 3 month old puppy. At your side is your CCW.



What do YOU do . . .?


Lets here it . . .
 
Sorry, I think you get to spend a few years in the slammer with Bubba. Unless I missed something, the BG is in public, on a public walkway, where there is no law prohibiting his presence. Basically all you have is a guy with a big mouth. No weapons, no force actually used, the guy hasn't even touched you, just a lot of jaw-jacking. Sorry, but unless there is something else here you don't get to kill the guy. Being rude and obnoxious is not a capital offense
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"keep looking you **** I will come out there and beat the **** out of you."
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BG with the "big mouth" made a threat. He then began to close the distance needed for him to carry out the threat. His body contains the weapons giving him the ability to carry out the threats. So you have intent, ability, and opportunity.

I'm with you on the retreat. I just disagree with your assertion that the BG in this case didn't meet the criteria for being a legal defensive gun usage.
 
To the new scenario I put as much space between me and BG as possible. As long as he is not armed and not closing the distance on me I'm ok. I will run away dragging the dog if necessary. I will also access my CW if being chased but will keep it hidden if he isn't gaining on me. If he begins to gain on me or I'm tiring I will be forced to display my weapon then stop and fire if he continues.
 
1 + 2 + 3 sounds good. Who could argue with that . . .


If an approach turns into a full fledged run . . . would it change?
 
For me its all about distance. If I can maintain a safe distance that is. I'm not very fast so I have to be real careful here. I want to leave enough time for the BG to stop the attack at the sight of my gun. If he is at a full run that will require me to show my weapon much earlier.
 
There is no such thing as a "completely realistic tactical scenario" PERIOD!!! Scenarios, by definition are not real, complete or tactical!!
 
Been there, done that.

Couldnt make much distance due to snow berms, icy roads, etc.
Though the person was not aggressive, they did set off my spidey senses. As soon as he came too close for comfort, my hand was on the grip of my gun, but i did not present because i saw no weapon.
Had there been a weapon, or the person made threats and behaved aggressively, so that I feared for my safety, I would have drawn down on him.

Come to think of it, I have been followed by someone who wanted a fight. He was able to read my lips enough to see I called him a badname as he tried to goose the gaspedal as I walked in front of his truck. I de-escalated when he tried to get me to go outside the gas station with him, told him there was nothing else left for us to talk about. He left, then I left.

Carrying a gun doesnt mean you can draw on anyone who is mean to you or rubs you the wrong way. It does not give you the license to pull it out whenever you want to look like a tough guy who takes no lip from anybody. Rather it means you have the responsibility to avoid ever having to use it. Exhaust all other options, if they exist.
 
"passenger seat was an a young unruly-looking sort that you just know has already done some time"

Does anyone else find this extremely biased assumption a bit more than discomforting? :rolleyes:
 
"Does anyone else find this extremely biased assumption a bit more than discomforting? "


You must live in a good town. Congratulations, and don't ever move. Mine has went down the crapper in the last ten years . . .
 
KingOA,

Does anyone else find this extremely biased assumption a bit more than discomforting?
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Are you suggesting that you don't make judgments based on appearance? How do you identify potential threats?

No I don't find this discomforting but rather enlightening. I believe that Aqeous correctly identified a turd with just a glance. This identification gave him an edge in alertness IMO.

I'm looking for every edge possible in keeping myself and family safe. Political correctness has no place in my self defense. A gang banger type trumps a well dressed clean cut man in my potential threat spectrum.

Besides mom always said that you only get one chance to make a first impression. Don't want folks to assume you are a gang banger then don't dress like one.
 
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