9mm v .357 power for Concealed Carry

Reading this thread I was thinking of the famous photo , used to be famous, of Jack Ruby shooting Lee Harvey Oswald with a 2"bbl S&W 38 special and killing him with the one shot. I was just 15 years old and did see it on TV when it happened.

Some years ago I had occasion to talk with a plain clothes detective on the local police force. Naturally the conversation went to my asking what he preferred to carry. His choice was a Sig in 40 cal. His partner carried a Sig in 380. I was surprised at that and said that I had always read that a 380 doesn't have stopping power. He smiled and told me that his partner had killed a perpetrator with a 380 a couple of weeks before.

OTOH, I remember when then heavyweight boxing contender Cleveland Williams was shot in the stomach 5 times with a 44 magnum by a Texas Highway Patrolman and survived. Not sure but I assume it had a 4" bbl. Forgive me for going off topic in the calibers but stopping power is such a fascinating topic with so many knowns and unknowns.
 
Good point Jimmy, I guess there will always be the exception to the rule and with bullet performance there will always be the exception. Thers just to many variables.
 
The best part of caliber wars is watching to see which side runs out of arguments first and gets their pink and frillys in a wad. :)
 
Quote:
If you're that concerned with your choice in CCW platform, try another caliber. Don't fabricate a lame concoction of data to try to convenience us that your apple is really an orange.


Translation: "You don't know what you should be carrying, so carry a revolver with a longer barrel so we can prove a .357 Magnum is really superior."

lol....How DARE you carry a .357 Magnum load in your snubbie .357!
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In fact, I carry a Glock 23 with 180grn Speer Gold Dots as my CCW weapon. My only 357mag is an Uberti SAA that I play with at the range so your stupid comment goes for naught. Oh well, nothing gained.

I'm just arguing the facts of the issue, not my preference. The bulk of the comments on this thread are meaningless as they are defending or attacking a bogus basic premise.

I have no use for an underpowered 9mm or an over recoiling 357mag for a CCW piece. If my G23 isn't a large enough pistol, I'll resort to my custom G20L, 6" slide 10mm that produces 165grn velocities of 1,503fps and ME of 827lb/ft, however, those are just to fight my way to my rifles.
 
What an entertaining read. What never escapes me is how folks are always trying to make their choice look like something it's not. The 22 folks want you to believe it's equal to the 32, the 22mag want you to believe it's a 380, the 380 a 9mm, the 9mm a 35, the 10mm a 44mag. If you're confident in what you're carrying why do you get so worked up about it? FWIW, my wife carries a 357 snubby 2" that runs a 125gr bullet at 1480fps. Myself, I don't care for the 125 so I run the same pistol with a 158gr. You can say a nine will run at those numbers if you want, you can call a bull a chicken but I ain't eating no eggs at your table.
 
hahaha now he is over at The High Road with the same thread. I guess you guys drove him out of his own thread lol.
 
Lets keep it simple and go back to newtons laws of motion

"for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

Ballistics asside, shoot a .357 magnum and a 9mm in a gun of equal weight. Just by felt recoil alone that should tell you which is going to have more stopping power.

Keep telling yourself your 9mm is just as powerful as a .357, if it makes you feel better than so be it..but your dead wrong
 
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the only problem I see with all of this

Is the original post was trying to compare p+ or +p+ to a standard remington 125 load.

If you compare standard to standard or hot to hot loads, there is no relative comparisons to be made.....

and on the post of the officer shot with the 22. he died because the 22 was lodged in an artery.... not from disruptive tissue damage... and because the perp was shot in the gut.......


steve
 
"For every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction." The recoil you feel is the same as the force the bullet applies to the perpetrator. "Knock down power" is a dead end road.

It's like real estate. The three most important factors are location, location and location.

You know how the Bible is really old and people still read it? You know how the U. S. Constitution is old and [at least some] people still read it?

Here's something old, but not even that old! Some people still read it! Here it is: http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
 
You know, a Corvette with a flat tire in a blizzard is alot slower than a Honda CVCC with a head of steam on the highway in July.

Ergo, the Honda is a higher performance vehicle than the 'vette.

I just proved it.
 
You know, a Corvette with a flat tire in a blizzard is alot slower than a Honda CVCC with a head of steam on the highway in July.

Ergo, the Honda is a higher performance vehicle than the 'vette.

I just proved it.
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I wonder if the OP has found another forum to drive his Honda CVCC ++p++ to?

Looks like this pesky little thing called math keeps blowing holes in his conclusions.;)
 
A while back I did some testing on a limited assortment 9mm , .38 Special (and +P), and .357 Magnum, fired from several different handguns. All results are from an average of 5 shots. All test were conducted on the same day under the same conditions. Distance from gun to chronograph was 12ft. I don't claim to be a ballistics expert, but I have spend my career working in the field of experimental testing (Experimental Engineering Test Technician), and I'm now retired. You'll see that I threw in a few modest "target" FMJ grounds as a kind of baseline to compare the others too.

This obviously is not a comprehensive test of every brand of ammunition, but with a seeming endless bickering on the forums about 9mm vs .357 Magnum - vs .38 Special (and +P), and which one is the best, I just wanted to test some of the ammo (and guns) that I had on hand, and see if I could answer that question to my own satisfaction, and I did. With the right ammo, any of these three calibers are plenty potent, and in the debate about which is better, a compact-to-mid sized 9mm vs snub-nose .357 Mag revolver? I'm positive that if any poor soul were to be shot by both, he wouldn't be able to tell them apart. :) Neither stand out as the "best", they are both excellent. The .38 +P PoweR'Ball put in a very nice showing too.

9mm

CZ D Compact PCR 9mm (3.9" barrel)
Win. 9mm 115gr FMJ (target ammo) 1097 fps - 307 ft/lbs
Federal Hydra Shok 9mm+P 124gr. 1058 fps - 308 ft/lbs
Cor Bon 9mm+P 115gr JHP 1197 fps - 366 ft/lbs
Cor Bon PowR/Ball 9mm+P 100gr 1360 fps - 411 ft/lbs
Cor Bon DPX 9mm+P 115gr 1227 fps - 384 ft/lbs

Sig P239 (3.6" barrel)
Win. 9mm 115gr FMJ (target ammo) 1043 fps - 278 ft/lbs
Federal Hydra Shok 9mm+P 124gr. 1025 fps - 289 ft/lbs
Cor Bon 9mm+P 115gr JHP 1186 fps - 359 ft/lbs
Cor Bon PowR/Ball 9mm+P 100gr 1319 fps -386 ft/lbs
Cor Bon DPX 9mm+P 115gr 1172 fps - 351 ft/lbs

Ruger SR9 (4.14" barrel)
Win. 9mm 115gr FMJ (target ammo) 1185 fps - 301 ft/lbs
Federal Hydra Shok 9mm+P 124gr. 1054 fps - 306 ft/lbs
Cor Bon 9mm+P 115gr JHP 1234 fps - 389 ft/lbs
Cor Bon PowR/Ball 9mm+P 100gr 1370 fps - 417 ft/lbs
Cor Bon DPX 9mm+P 115gr 1181 fps - 356 ft/lbs
............................................................................

.38 Special (and +P)
.357 Magnum

S&W 340 M&P (1 7/8" barrel)
Win. .38 Spl. 130gr (target ammo) 766 fps - 169 ft/lbs
Federal Hydra Shok .38 Spl.+P 147gr 817 fps - 218 ft/lbs
Cor Bon PowR'Ball .38 Spl.+P 100gr 1193 fps - 316 ft/lbs
Cor Bon DPX .357 Mag 125gr 1109 fps - 341 ft/lbs

Ruger SP101 (2 1/4" barrel)
Win. .38 Spl. 130gr (target ammo) 767 fps - 170 ft/lbs
Federal Hydra Shok .38 Spl.+P 147gr 894 fps - 261 ft/lbs
Cor Bon PowR'Ball .38 Spl.+P 100gr 1221 fps - 331 ft/lbs
Cor Bon DPX .357 Mag 125gr 1182 fps - 388 ft/lbs
 
Once again, brabham78's posted velocities are like comparing apples and grapes because of the arbitrarily barrel lengths selected. As I stated above, concealability isn't a function of barrel/slide length but rather one of grip size and length.

Therefore this comparison is nonsense as the 9mms have a nominal 4" barrel (the length the 9mm cartridge was designed for) while the 38spl and 357mag's barrels are half that long (much shorter than the cartridge was designed for).
 
Quote: 'Once again, brabham78's posted velocities are like comparing apples and grapes because of the arbitrarily barrel lengths selected. As I stated above, concealability isn't a function of barrel/slide length but rather one of grip size and length.

Therefore this comparison is nonsense as the 9mms have a nominal 4" barrel (the length the 9mm cartridge was designed for) while the 38spl and 357mag's barrels are half that long (much shorter than the cartridge was designed for). "

........................................

COSteve, I think I made it clear that I did not consider this to be a comprehensive test of guns and calibers. I clearly stated that I was testing what I had on hand, and the reason I had these on hand, is because these my carry guns, and I was trying to satisfy my own curiosity as to how they compare. I carry a little of everything, and as a matter of fact, I'm a fan of the .357 Mag round. It is my primary carry gun. But out of my guns, as dissimilar as they are, the 9mm and .357 Magnum have very similar performance, and that is what I was trying to determine, strictly for my own information. I posted it on a whim, just in case someone might like to see it too. I hope a few people might have found it worth a look-see. I guess it didn't meet your high standards, and I apologize. I've noticed your area of interest lies in debating barrel lengths and grip sizes, and in making sure no on is cheating in that regard.


And by the way, how is your ballistic testing coming along? I'm looking forward to seeing your results.
 
I don't give a rat's patootie about either the 9mm or 357mag as a concealed carry piece so I don't have a dog in this fight. For me, the 9mm is too small and weak and the 357mag's platform (revolver) isn't my thing. I carry a G23 (40) CCW and a G20L (10mm) hunting. My HD gun is a 45acp.

I'm merely stating that the OP's original basis for his comparison is bogus. His dictates that a 357mag carry weapon is only concealable with a 2" barrel which is nonsense. Many, if not most, 357mag revolvers actually carried have 4" barrels and therefore his conclusion as to similarity of CCW performance between the two calibers is also nonsense.

Exaggerated example to demonstrate the point:

If I fired a 30-06 out of a 2" barrel it's performance will be severely degraded, possibly down to below that of a 9mm's (because of the slower burning powder in a rifle round). If I then stated that a hot 9mm was the equal to a mild 30-06, I would be laughed off the site.

Look, anyone can rig a comparison to achieve a pre-ordained result if they work at it. That's where the saying, "Liars figure and figures lie." comes from. However, the facts are still the facts and bogus comparisons do more to demonstrate the poster's attempt to conceal the truth rather than reveal it.
 
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