9mm revolvers ?

SOMEONE go to the range with their Chrony!

The issue here is you want to push a bullet with diameter .357 or .355 out of a short little barrel as fast as you can.

Just go to the range with 2 guns, because the physical differences in chronographs is going to matter because the differences will be in millimetric gnat hairs.

But boo hoo, I need more power from my gun with too short a barrel because really all I do is carry it around all day like a little boat anchor.

Moar Powah?
1. Get a longer barrel
2. .44 special
3. Shotgun

I’ve explored .357 reasonably extensively with a
10” fixed breech Contender .357 Maximum
20” marlin .357 carbine
5 1/2” Ruger Blackhawk with .357 and 9mm cylinders. The bullets are so close to each other you can shoot em both from the same gun.

If you want more velocity, get a longer barrel. It’s that simple.

If you are stuck with a short barrel, faster powders are better.

After having a lot of fun learning about all those guns I learned
A. The fireball from a .357 Max is spectacular at dusk when it’s snowing and generally is wicked painful.

B. Sell them all and go big bore

At this point I have determined that if not hunting deer and bored with my .22 I would rather try something interesting like 32-20, .327 Fed Mag (because load it to .32 long levels or whatever you like) or .380 auto because maybe handloads can make that little thing light and accurate and who doesn’t like messing with springs, or evem .38 special in a 3” kit gun because it’ll blow a pop can or attacking pine cone with authority. 9mm is just boring to me. It’s “buy it, shoot it because that’s what they want you to buy theses days. Boring.”

You guys should fight about “if Bruce Lee and Gandalf were in a fight, who would win” or “what is the hottest chilli pepper.”

Cuz 9mm or .38 are the same in an inch and a half long barrel.
 
I agree. When I want more power, I shoot my Super Blackhawk. Generally, I don't want more power. Which is why I often carry a .380.
 
Round, round, round, here we go....
SOMEONE go to the range with their Chrony!...Moar Powah?
1. Get a longer barrel
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I already posted way back in this thread somewhere:
.357 BB 180 grain @ 1246, 1250 out of 1/7/8 LCR = 625 ft pounds muzzle energy.
No one yet has posted a 9mm that tops that.

Does it matter if the round is expensive or boutique or there is only one manufacturer that this hot a .357 is available? No, not really, because it means that is the highest potential out of a short barrel revolver with .357 blowing away the usual myth that .357 is neutered out of a short barrel. Will I shoot it all day, NO, but it is available and I have done it. I don't need to practice with it, I just need to know the difference in the point of impact. Am I worried about followup times? No, not with only five rounds I want to make every shot count. Anyways, the recoil is stout but the muzzle rise was not vertical, so the time difference is fractional.
If you really need to practice weekend after weekend with your carry loads, you better get some professional instruction on marksmanship! That's my answer to the excuse for cost of ammo!

This is my woods load, not my SD carry.

I didn't pick either one. Just Googled and that was what popped up.
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I suggest that instead of just googling, you get out to the range yourself with a chronograph. From your posts about your expertise, it sounds like you should be able to afford one.
 
Someone mentioned 357 has better bullet profiles and this provides an advantage. Not true.

If discussing flat points, meplat advantages in small calibers is a total myth. I dislike how the boutique loaders like Buffalo Bore say the flat meplat of their "woods" 9mm loads matter (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388). It doesn't. It also doesn't matter in 357. The only reason the "wood" or "outdoor" boutique rounds are flat is because they are 147gr 9mm--flat points.

It's a bit of read, but you if go through it, you'll have more bullet profile knowledge than most.

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/articlepvdw.html

Summation, flat meplat don't provide a benefit until you get into large calibers (44 and rifle rounds).
 
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"it sounds like you should be able to afford one".

Yeah, I can afford one. It isn't where my interests lie.
In the 65-70 years I've been shooting handguns, I've only been to a range twice. Not my thang. I generally used my handguns for squirrel and rabbit hunting. After I lost interest in killing stuff, I mostly just shot soda pop cans and the occasional snake. I have very little empathy for snakes, and none at all for tin cans.

I'm so far behind the times that I use a Tom Threepersons holster.
 
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the usual myth that .357 is neutered out of a short barrel.
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Realizing its just my opinion, but I consider 1200fps speeds to be neutered .357 Magnum. :D

The .357 was never meant to be fired from a snub nose, and while it is possible, it should not be done extensively. A friend of mine spent a summer firing a few thousand .357 rounds through several snub nose guns. He got nerve damage in his hands and arms that still troubles him a decade and a couple surgeries later. Today he can fire a box of 9mm, but nothing more then he has to stop.

Think of the .357 in a snub nose as "emergency use only". Limited use doesn't cause permanent harm, but over use can. Shoot enough to know if .357 goes somewhere radically different from lighter loads at belly gun ranges. Shoot something lighter for practice.

I favor the .357 over the 9mm for those times when you need more than the 9mm has. You may never need it, but I find having the capability available a comfort.

I keep hearing about how cheap 9mm ammo is, and since I haven't bought any factory ammo in some time I just looked at a couple pages on Midway's site.

9mm FMJ is running $.25 per round or a bit less. 9mm JHP's (the defense ammo always being touted) is running $1 a round +/- a bit depending on who's.

"Regular" .357 (158gr JSP/JHP) is running about $.50 each, +/-, and the fabled buffalo bore 180s are $1.50 each.

SO, explain how, the premium 9mm ammo (for self defense) is cheaper than regular .357 (also considered ok for self defense) at nearly twice the cost per round?? Yes, 9mm ball is cheaper, by far, but no one is talking about using 9mm ball for defense, they always talk JHP and those cost as much as twice what "regular" .357s cost. yes, premium 9mm is cheaper than premium .357 but no one seems to be claiming premium .357 is needed, but 9mm JHPs, ARE...

so, remember, when they claim 9mm is better because the ammo is cheaper, remember that only SOME 9mm ammo is cheaper and the cheap stuff isn't considered good for self defense.
 
9mm ammo at Midway is as low as sixteen cents per round for Tula and nineteen cents per round for Remington. 38 Special goes for at least thirty-one cents per round at Midway for Magtech.

I reload 38 Special cheaper than 16 cents per round if I reuse my brass but I can reload 9mm for even less less.

I wouldn't use any of those loads for self defense but I would use them for practice.

For someone who doesn't reload and shoots a lot for practice, the 9mm makes a lot of sense.
 
I thought a number of the world''s military forces use 9mm ball for defense.

That said, with three 9mm conversions in hand, I can assure you that paying for the conversion by means of ammo savings is unlikely. For me, the conversions were partly a matter of convenience, and partly for a lark. I like them.
 
What did your conversions cost, if you don't mind me asking?


It seems to me that you would save just more than $120/k for practice rounds over 38 Special.
 
stinkeypete said:
SOMEONE go to the range with their Chrony!
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I wouldn’t likely be able to until like end of August/beginning of September... not enough time between leaving Maine and getting to FLETC.

2damnold4this said:
What did your conversions cost, if you don't mind me asking?
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Two places do the work...

http://pinnaclehighperformance.com/

https://www.tkcustom.com/

Pinnacle did the work on mine... but bought the cylinder already converted off AR15.com. Had it fitted, then matched in NP3 Plus to my gun. Gives me a sort of convertible J-frame... since I still have the original cylinder. If I remember correctly, Pinnacle is a little cheaper.
 
I thought a number of the world''s military forces use 9mm ball for defense.
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This is kind of a yes and no thing.

Individual soldiers use 9mm ball for personal defense, because that's what they have. Armies don't. Many militaries don't really consider the handgun a weapon, or not an offensive one at best.

They use 9mm ball because all the major European (and American) powers long ago either signed or agreed to abide by (without actually signing) the Hague accords, which stipulated FMJ for use between signatory combatant nations armies. And, because fmj has the best record for feeding in all environments.

Remember the purpose of military weapons is NOT to keep our boys alive, or be the best they can be. The purpose it to accomplish the mission. Their criteria are "good enough to get the job done" and doesn't cost too much.

The actual effectiveness of individual rounds and their ability to stop an attacker is the top priority of the private citizen, protecting our precious behinds, and those of our loved ones. It is NOT the priority of the military, never was, never will be.

You or I wouldn't choose FMJ we have better choices available. Soldiers DON'T. They make do with what they get issued, the best they can.

This is the primary reason I always discount arguments about this or that being superior FOR ME, because the military uses it, or does it that way. It MIGHT be, but it isn't guaranteed to be the best for me, in my personal life, just because the military uses it.

been several decades since I made my "bunk" so you could bounce a quarter off it, and so far, I'm still here...:rolleyes::D
 
"purpose it to accomplish the mission. Their criteria are "good enough to get the job done" and doesn't cost too much".

Not a bad criterium. It's what most of my clients require of my designs. Doing more throws away their money.
 
"What did your conversions cost, if you don't mind me asking?"

TKC did mine. $300.
Plus $140 for the titanium .38Sp/.357Mag cylinder and extractor
Plus $15 for the titanium center pin
Plus about $30 for extra used yokes.
Moon clips (not TKC) cost about $1.25 each
So,about $490 for each of the three revolvers.
Takes an average of about 5 minutes per cylinder to time the new extractors. I do that while watching TV, so no cost.

Like Screwball, I kept the original, unmodified stainless cylinder and yoke.
I also did a second yoke and titanium cylinder assembly, leaving it unmodified as a .38Sp+P/.357Mag.

I do not expect to get my money back from 9mm ammo cost savings.
 
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74A95 said:
And it's this exact type of misrepresentation that distorts the discussion.

Pick the weakest 357 magnum load then compare it with a +P 9mm load.
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That's not the weakest .357 load, in fact the 125 grain load is probably one of the most often recommended and highly touted loadings experts say to use for defensive use with .357 Magnum in any revolver regardless of barrel length.

However, even the weakest 9mm load from a snub would likely be close to those numbers.
 
TruthTellers said:
That's not the weakest .357 load, in fact the 125 grain load is probably one of the most often recommended and highly touted loadings experts say to use for defensive use with .357 Magnum in any revolver regardless of barrel length.

However, even the weakest 9mm load from a snub would likely be close to those numbers.
Click to expand...

Speer's Short Barrel loads are low velocity rounds. I don't see a Short Barrel 125 grain load at Speer's website, but their Short barrel 135 grain load is mighty slow, rated at 990 fps from a 2" vented barrel.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/products...age=0&facets=computed_skucaliber_s=357 Magnum

Jim specified the Short Barrel round, but didn't post the source, so who knows whether it was a 125 grain or a 135 grain.

Lucky Gunner's data clocked the 135 grain Short Barrel at 1069 fps from their 2" barrel revolver, a Kimber K6S.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
 
", so who knows whether it was a 125 grain or a 135 grain.".

I know.
It was 135gr. From memory, I think the velocity was reported as about 997 fps, but don't hold me to that. I have no doubt those results will turn up again after I quit looking for them. You know how that goes :-)

I have no interest in high speed, light weight loads because I can't shoot them in my titanium cylinders (to inhibit cylinder face erosion). I also don't shoot any 9mm lighter than 147gr. The rounds that I've seen that were of interest to me ranged from roughly 946 fps to about 1070 fps in a 1-7/8" barrel (generally about 290 to 340 ft-lbs). That would be about 3.5" breech to muzzle.

As an aside, I am probably going to cut one of my spare titanium cylinders for moon clips so I can share rounds with my Micro .380 while still retaining the ability to shoot .38Sp and .357 Magnum in it without using the moonclips. With the .380 ammo limited to a max weight of 95-100 gr, I would also be limited to very low velocity .380 because of the erosion potential.
 
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JimCunn said:
", so who knows whether it was a 125 grain or a 135 grain.".

I know.
It was 135gr. From memory, I think the velocity was reported as about 997 fps, but don't hold me to that. I have no doubt those results will turn up again after I quit looking for them. You know how that goes :-)
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Jim,

Now you're saying the speed was 997 fps? But your post said the velocity was 1,109fps. Make up your mind.

You are new to this forum, and perhaps new to gun forums. Here's some advice: always cite your resources, you know, just like if you were writing a science paper. That way we can check the information and make sure the source is legitimate (some sources are shady at best) so it doesn't look like you're fabricating information from thin air, which is kind of how it looks now.
 
I have a science paper in peer review at the moment, so am familiar with that procedure.

I suspect that you and I were referring to different posts - because I didn't quote the velocity in every case, and I assumed you were thinking about one in which I didn't (135gr .357 Mag at 298 ft-lbs - and yes, I realize that should be written as lb-ft).

Frankly, it doesn't seem that this forum usually requires or typically sees the same reference requirements as the research journals. On an entertainment forum such as this, I have no intention of spending five or six hours for each post going back and researching original references for stuff that I have in memory. As far as your thinking I am making stuff up, be my guest - I encourage you to think whatever you wish. Don't worry about it, I'm neither sensitive, nor thin-skinned.
 
JimCunn said:
I have a science paper in peer review at the moment, so am familiar with that procedure.

I suspect that you and I were referring to different posts - because I didn't quote the velocity in every case, and I assumed you were thinking about one in which I didn't (135gr .357 Mag at 298 ft-lbs - and yes, I realize that should be written as lb-ft).

Frankly, it doesn't seem that this forum usually requires or typically sees the same reference requirements as the research journals. On an entertainment forum such as this, I have no intention of spending five or six hours for each post going back and researching original references for stuff that I have in memory. As far as your thinking I am making stuff up, be my guest - I encourage you to think whatever you wish. Don't worry about it, I'm neither sensitive, nor thin-skinned.
Click to expand...

See post 158.

Human memories suck. The details matter whenever discussing technical information. Certainly you've learned that? It applies here just like it does in science, because, like science, you're accountable for everything you write. And if you can't be counted on as a reliable source, no one will believe you in future posts.

I image that the founder and staff of this forum would disagree that this is a entertainment forum. Instead, they might argue that this forum is intended to exchange ideas and information.

By the way, ft-lb is acceptable. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ANSI-abbreviations-scientific-engineering-terms-d_1622.html
 
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