9mm revolvers ?

rock185 said:
Maybe we could agree that in the little ~2"-3" revolvers, 9MM effectiveness lies somewhere between 38 +P and .357 Mag ? With the .357 being more powerful, but exhibiting more recoil and muzzle blast. And 9MM being more powerful than .38+P, but with less recoil and muzzle blast than .357 Magnum?

Mention was made of 180 grain .357 ammo. I chronographed some of the Buffalo Bore 180 in some 4" and 5" revolvers. Velocities ranged between 1384 to 1444 FPS, with one of the 4" guns recording the highest velocity. The 180 BB is the most powerful factory .357 ammunition I have used. I would not look forward to carrying the 180 grain BB, or similar, in anything like a little 2" concealed carry revolver.

FWIW, I once chronographed some Winchester 125 JHP .357 in a 3" revolver. It averaged 1369 FPS. For comparison, the Federal 9MM 124 HST +P in a 3" revolver averaged 1295 FPS. I can't recall getting more than 1000 FPS or so from any 38+P, even in a 4" revolver. So the 9MM definitely didn't smoke the .357 in my little informal comparison. In the little 2"-3" revolvers though, the 9MM is perhaps more than, "just a rimless 38+P", as some have claimed.

Even though I can't claim that the 9MM smokes the 357, I think I'll hang on to my wimpy little 9MM revolvers for the time being;)
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I'm the one that mentioned 180 grain .357, mostly because anytime the topic of 9mm revolvers comes up, someone HAS to bring up that .357 can shoot 180 grain bullets and 9mm can't so that makes .357 so much better.

It certainly is better than 9mm if you're out hunting or are open carrying said 4 inch or longer barrel revolver for bear or other large, dangerous animal while you're out camping/hiking/fishing, etc, but when we're talking 2 inch snubs for concealed carry in suburbia or the city, 9mm works just fine.
 
I can't recall getting more than 1000 FPS or so from any 38+P, even in a 4" revolver.
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I chronographed BB 158 .38 +P out of my 1 7/8 LCR att 1024 fps and out of the 3" .38 LCRX at 1076 and 1087 for 406 and 415 fp ME.

Lets see some real stats for 9mm coming out of a 2" revovler, not from a 3"semi auto. And is there a 9mm revolver that hold 6 rounds and weighs about 24 ounces?

And is there a 9mm revolver that hold 6 rounds and weighs about 24 ounces?
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LOL, I researched and answered my own question....
The Korth 9mm Sky Marshal and the Charter Arms Pitbull
 
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HighValleyRanch said:
I chronographed BB 158 .38 +P out of my 1 7/8 LCR att 1024 fps and out of the 3" .38 LCRX at 1076 and 1087 for 406 and 415 fp ME.

Lets see some real stats for 9mm coming out of a 2" revovler, not from a 3"semi auto. And is there a 9mm revolver that hold 6 rounds and weighs about 24 ounces?


LOL, I researched and answered my own question....
The Korth 9mm Sky Marshal and the Charter Arms Pitbull
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Paul Harrell did a good job on the 9mm LCR, some loads will eclipse low end 125 grain .357 Magnum out of a snub.

https://youtu.be/eIsy9gg1S58

As with .357, the 9mm velocity in snub revolvers depends on the ammo used. The thing is you can get significantly powerful results with 9mm for a fraction of the cost of the boutique .38/.357. When one needs 158 grain .38/.357 in a snub that they're using for self defense in civilization IDK, out in the woods in a 3 or 4 inch revolver... I can see the advantage.
 
Thank God for Paul Harrell. Not all of us have a chronograph or a good hook-up for meat target supplies.

Starting long before YouTube and smart phones, I always enjoyed shooting reactive targets. The usual suspect was tin cans or soda jugs full of tap water. For added enjoyment, friends and I would coordinate our yearly pantry cleanings and check local stores for expired goods. Enough overripe fruit and old canned goods could make for an afternoon of wonder. Aside from juvenile glee and making a smorgasbord for the woodland critters, regularly shooting stuff like that with your carry gun can give you an intuitive feel for the physics.
 
There simply isn't enough difference between a .38 sp. and a 9mm to warrant a discussion. Especially in a snub nose revolver. Believe it or not it's not always about power. Of course you can have a very powerful lightweight revolver.
Then you holster it or shove it in a pocket and hope you never have to draw it.
You won't practice with it like you should because it hurts to shoot it.
The best you can do is hope it shoots when you need it.
 
MoArk Willy said:
There simply isn't enough difference between a .38 sp. and a 9mm to warrant a discussion. Especially in a snub nose revolver. Believe it or not it's not always about power. Of course you can have a very powerful lightweight revolver.

Then you holster it or shove it in a pocket and hope you never have to draw it.

You won't practice with it like you should because it hurts to shoot it.

The best you can do is hope it shoots when you need it.
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It’s funny when people talk about things other people are doing... telling them that they are wrong.

Not for nothing, but I’m not understanding your post. First, not enough difference between .38 and 9mm... then mention “a very powerful lightweight revolver.” Have you shot either caliber in a short barrel revolver? Either one being alloy framed? I have... actually the same gun (with a conversion cylinder, which gives me a convertible in a sense).

Add in spouting out how people never practice, and just shove it in the holster and hope for the best. How many rounds do you put down range each year? The whole high and mighty thing is really tiring.

My 642-1 has a similar POI with UMC bulk 115 grain ammo and Hornady XTP 147 grain (think how weak the UMC is, they luckily match up for me). Having that, I have an extremely cost effective way to practice... which I utilize to the fullest extent. There definitely are things to watch out for with 9mm revolvers... but some things are very apparent when you actually shoot one.

Moon clips, either you love them or hate them. I personally like them, especially with the carriers I use... which if I damage them, I likely am a lot worse off than the moon clip. You can do moon clips with .38 or .357... but then you can run into clip thickness and matching them to your ammo.

If you are using a .38/.357 length cylinder/ejector rod... 9mm on moon clips will have better ejection over .38s. Why? Shorter overall length. Even loaded rounds, I don’t think I’ve ever had an issue with rounds/cases hanging up with 9mm. I have multiple times with .38s.

For recoil, it may not be a .22... but it is definitely not a 329 with full Magnums. Personally, I did not notice a huge difference in perceive recoil when comparing 9mm to .38+P... either defensive or range ammo (listed my choices for each, and there is a noticeable power difference between the two). Compare defensive .38+P to defensive 9mm... I doubt most will notice a difference.
 
I was shooting a cylinder full of half .38 special +P BB 158 grain Keith hardcast Buffalobore outdoorsmans and half magtech 158 grain swc .357 magnum. They felt identical in recoil and loudness. This was out of my new Kimber K6 with the new wood grips. Didn't have the chrono set up in the rain.

Checking my chrono data for both out of my LCR, they are almost identical in ME.
.38 +P BB at 1024, 1027 fps, and the magtech .357 158 grain at 1001, 1024 fps.
 
BB has the same HC load with .38 +P 158 grain LSWCHP as well, identical power.
This is the same or hotter than the old FBI load.
I had some of the old super vel FBI and it didn't even come close.
 
HighValleyRanch said:
I was shooting a cylinder full of half .38 special +P BB 158 grain Keith hardcast Buffalobore outdoorsmans and half magtech 158 grain swc .357 magnum. They felt identical in recoil and loudness. This was out of my new Kimber K6 with the new wood grips. Didn't have the chrono set up in the rain.

Checking my chrono data for both out of my LCR, they are almost identical in ME.
.38 +P BB at 1024, 1027 fps, and the magtech .357 158 grain at 1001, 1024 fps.
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Only issue I see with this is you're paying twice as much for the Buffalo Bore .38 vs Magtech .357 for the same ballistic results. The only difference is how accurate they shoot in various guns and I'd imagine the BB is better than Magtech, almost everything is better than Magtech.

The only thing is you can shoot that BB in cheap .38 revovlers whereas most .357 revolvers cost hundreds more.
 
stinkeypete said:
You fellas really need to reframe your question and hand load.

.38/.357 is .357 inch diameter in a rimmed case
9mm is .355 inch diameter in an unrimmed case

The difference is the thickness of a human hair.

Any pistol that can handle a .357 magnum load can simply duplicate a 9mm load. The only issue is the very short barrel, so I imagine that the .357 magnum should be loaded with a very fast powder compared to a longer barrel maximum load.

It’s true that with a runty short barrel one could use a load in a .357 case that would simply produce an enormous fireball without increase (maybe even decrease) in projectile velocity by using a slower powder. But that’s an incompetent load for that barrel.

It’s also true that the .357 load can exactly duplicate the 9mm load.

(I think it’s against the rules to suggest that any gun that can handle the 9mm can also duplicate that load in a .38 case as that brass has a larger volume but it’s a sort of “saami specs” argument over “what is plus p”.)

It seems like people are debating about “what factory ammunition can I buy that works well in a runty short barrel”
and
“I can buy cheap 9mm cheaper than .38 special because I don’t reload yet”
and
“I can get moon clips to solve the problem I created by using rimless cases.”
and
“How come I can’t get semi-wadcutters for my 9mm revolver?”

You boys are arguing about which factory ammo kills a block of jello the deadest.

Not many people are attacked by jello. For shooting humans, a .357 and .355 hole have the same practical effect.
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Well the bolded part is only true outside of The Blob movies there stinkeypete. :D
 
"Why would anyone want a 9mm revolver when a .357 mag is a similar caliber, and absolutely smokes that 9mm cartridge?"

135 gr .357Mag short barrel 298 ft-lb
147gr 9mm. 292 ft-lb.

I'm not gonna worry about the 6 ft-lb difference.

It takes me about 2 minutes to change the yoke and titanium cylinder in my 637-2 Airweight J-frames between .38+P/.357Mag and 9mm. The 9mm loads and ejects faster, and is cheaper, so I use that cylinder most of the time.
 
And like I said the first time, there are better hollow point bullets in 9mm.

Gold Dot is the only "modern" hollow point load in 357 commercial. The Speer hollow points in BB and Underwood were replaced by Gold Dot in 9mm loads for "Premium" ammunition.

Just like Hydra/Hydro Federal is now HST in 9mm. No HST in 357. And the newest 357 load, Federal Fusion, 357 sucks.

While being right that 9mm is just better than 357, I sure love my 686.
 
Well just off the top of my head, Speer makes three different Gold Dot loadings in .357 Magnum, Federal has the 140 GR Barnes Expander, Barnes loads their 125 GR XPB under their own brand, Cor-Bon offers their 125 GR DPX, Winchester offers a 125 GR PDX Defender, and Hornady makes both Critical Defense and Critical Duty in .357 Magnum. I'm really not seeing a lack of modern premium bullets being a problem in .357 Magnum. Also, considering Federal is making HST's in .38 Special +P and 10mm, I wouldn't be surprised by a .357 Magnum version soon.
 
FYI, Vista owns Speer and Federal.

Barnes is owned by Freedom (ie Remington).

Interestingly, Vista Outdoors and Barnes is both base in Utah.

The Speer bullets that are not Gold Dot (ie, "Bonded") take harder velocities to do what Gold Dot does at lower velocities. This was documented on Speer's website until 3 years ago or so.

That is why HST and Gold Dot are great in 9mm and perform better than most junk bullets as show in the Lucky Gunner test. The are just better hollow points in all regards.

It's also *probably* why we see the 10mm Gold Dot factory load so low on FPS and no HST 357, instead going the Fusion route from Federal.
 
Why is it so hard for some to accept that 9mm splits the difference between .38 Special and .357 Mag? You can cherry pick the strongest .38 Special +P loads or weak .357 loads and skew the results but comparing standard loads from the same company will result with 9mm right in between the 2.
 
"but comparing standard loads from the same company will result with 9mm right in between the 2".

Why is that?
 
I'm arguing it doesn't split, 9mm exceeds a lot of 357 loads.

HST does better than MOST 357 loads at personal defense attributes.

Heck, at 18 inches fully expanded, it does better than MOST 357 factory loads.
 
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