9mm carbine for hunting?

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I don't agree with using it, but ballistics don't lie and you can get velocities and energy at least close to "acceptable hunting cartridges". As long as you had the self discipline to pass up that big buck that is a little too far, and stuck to archery ranges it would be an interesting challenge.

I lack the ability to pass on that buck, so I make sure to hunt with a gun that allows me to shoot pretty much anything I can see. But that's just me.:D

Edit: Also would need to pick correct bullet type for max penetration.
 
tahunua001,

I'm not debating the 9mm question. I think your mind was already made up before you posted the question. In my opinion if the shot (or bullet) is questionable, then why risk injuring an animal you may never recover.

Your argument seems to be you're ethical because you're legal. Once upon a time it was legal to own slaves, today we certainly wouldn't say it was ever ethical. As hunters we all know that what is legal is not always what is ethical and our hunting practices should go above the law in certain areas.

For example, in my state you can legally hunt deer with a .17 Remington centerfire or a 25ACP pistol round, but the legality of these calibers under state law does not mean they are ethical. In fact the use of such would be frowned upon and considered cruel. I guess it comes down to if you don't have convictions about the caliber you are using, and it is legal, then the decision is up to you.

God bless,
 
9mm for hunting deer is most likely not legal in most States. Now as to knock down power and clean kill will never happen you some of you people watch to many movies. Deer don't go and flop down after being shot, they can run for miles if wounded with a non vital hit or lay down in the water and let it close up and go on there way, only to die days later. Exterior ballistics mean nothing it's terminal ballistics you need to look at. Unless it is a head shot or severed spinal cord that deer is going for a good run.
Mace
 
tahunua001,

I'm not debating the 9mm question. I think your mind was already made up before you posted the question. In my opinion if the shot (or bullet) is questionable, then why risk injuring an animal you may never recover.

Your argument seems to be you're ethical because you're legal. Once upon a time it was legal to own slaves, today we certainly wouldn't say it was ever ethical. As hunters we all know that what is legal is not always what is ethical and our hunting practices should go above the law in certain areas.

For example, in my state you can legally hunt deer with a .17 Remington centerfire or a 25ACP pistol round, but the legality of these calibers under state law does not mean they are ethical. In fact the use of such would be frowned upon and considered cruel. I guess it comes down to if you don't have convictions about the caliber you are using, and it is legal, then the decision is up to you.

God bless,
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you do have a very good point, and even i would agree that 17 is just a teensie bit too small for deer(IMHO even coyotes). and actually all plans of packing the carbine for deer season(which were never really serious) have been stamped to the ground. still, if I'm ever in a post apocalyptic world where I have lots of 9mm stockpiled I might be able get away with the 9mm.
never sell anyone short(see signature below)
 
I for one have never seen a tv show where people shoot deer with 223 or 22 but I have killed boat loads with a 223 and know several people who do the same with a 22lr the trick is discipline and the skill to do it. It is true that you cannot simply shoot a deer in the shoulder from 100 yards out with a 9mm and expect it do blow the deer to the ground and it be halfway cooked at the same time, it simply wont do it. However if you wait and get the right shot ( a spot where the neck joins the skull is the perfect place ) it will literally seem like the life was sucked out of the deer and it will fall over dead and will not move! If someone tells you otherwise then I can promise they have not did it personally and chances are have watched to much tv themselves.

If you are worried someone will "frown" on you for what you do, you can do one of two things, 1 respect what someone you don't even know thinks of what you are doing and respect that there opinion for whatever reason supersedes yours because they are rich or a boss at there company, or 2 give them the one finger salute and tell them to have happy thoughts while they stay out of your business.

If someone thinks that its cruelty to instantly kill a deer by using a small caliber rifle or pistol then they really need to hate on bow hunters when there deer runs 20 or so yards ( I have shot deer with a bow and know what happens ).

All of which I am talking about right now has been through personal experience or watching my grandfather kill deer with a 22lr ( he has passed away ).
 
I'm bucking the trend here....

But I am correct.

The 9mm has the capacity to kill deer at any range you can hit them. Period.

HOWEVER, in order to make clean kills, one has to take into account the limitations of the round, and the shooter! Take, for instance the report of a deer taking several 9mm rounds through the shoulder and not only getting away, but recovering. Amazing, but I am sure quite true. Also quite non-typical. But things like this do happen.

I have personally seen a deer (and a small doe at that) take 21 (twenty-one!!!!) hits from .30 caliber rifles (.30-30, .30-06, & .308) and still have enough life left afterwards to get lost to the hunting party in a swamp. Found that dead deer the next weekend. All hits were in the "right"spots, but that deer simply didn't quit. Each shot put it down, and it came right back up after about 20-30m seconds and ran. This is one of the exceptions, and a very rare one at that, but it did happen.

The 9mm Luger out of a carbine has enough energy to make a clean kill, but bullet construction plays an important part in whether or not the bullet gets where it needs to go to make the kill. FMJ is not legal for hunting, any place I know of, and JHP/JSP 9mm rounds are designed with people in mind. And, like the .357Mag 125gr, when fired out of a carbine barrel, the extra velocity means they open up even sooner, and penetrate less. One of those 5 9mm shots to the shoulder that didn't drop the deer might have dropped it like lightning, had it hit the spine in the neck.

Bullet construction, velocity, and PLACEMENT are what matters most. Asking a bullet to break heavy bone and go on to penetrate deeply when it is not built for it, is asking for failure. Match the shots to what you are shooting, other wise, your results are going to be ....suboptimal.

Game laws are based on sportsmanship, and the general level of the hunters. You can kill deer with anything that shoots, with bows, or with pointy sticks and rocks. BUT most people hunting will not do a good job of it using the "lighter end" guns.

There isn't a deer on the earth that will not fall to a .357, or a 9mm, or even a .22LR, IF the shooter does their job of placing the shot in the right place, for the caliber (and bullet) being used. IF that means getting close, then it means getting close, or not shooting!

Many calibers are not legal for deer in many places, not because they are incapable of killing deer, but because the majority of the hunters are not capable of making clean kills with them, in the experience of various game depts.

Once upon a time, we shot and killed deer with .36 and .40 caliber muzzleloaders, firing round balls. That level of energy and penetration worked then, and will work today. The main difference is those frontier hunters, having only one shot, took great pains to ensure that when they did shoot, they were successful. Or so the stories say.

Do everything right, and you can kill deer with the 9mm carbine, and do it cleanly at ranges that would astound some people here. Do even ONE thing wrong, and you will be chasing a cripple, at best. That is why rounds like the 9mm are not considered good deer rounds, not because they can't do the job, but because when things are less than perfect, they fail more often than many better choices.

That's something important to game depts, and to ethical sportsmen as well.
 
I would not use anything under a 147 gr for deer and that would be only in an emergency. Two years ago shot a deer at 20 yds with 6 rounds of 115gr 9mm. Yeah I know but it was necessary. The hits were solid but the deer showed no reaction. Had some blood but no deer. Ended up killing the deer a few months later and found 5 nicely healed bullet holes over the right front leg and shoulder. Maybe if you keep the distance below 75 yards and use a +p 147gr...then maybe. But it would be just as easy to get a cheap shotgun or mosin nagant.
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Forever the skeptic, let us look at this statement. 5 hits, 1 miss. What deer stands there after the first round is fired to receive four more? If the deer ran after the first shot, wow!!! That was some shooting! five shots in a running deer all in the right front leg and shoulder. How does a running deer manage to keep the same side to the shooter for five shots? Should not some of the shots been in the direction of the butt? I can see the possibility of five shots hitting the same front shoulder and leg if the deer ran from the shooter in ever-widening spiral around and away from him...but deer do not usually run that way.
Five shots healed over? I hit a deer with only one piece of #4 buckshot in the lungs. He went 100 yards and died. Did none of the 9mm bullet penetrate into the lungs?
Five bullet holes healed over? Five bullets carrying bacteria from the hair and hide, and not one caused infection? Who injected the deer with antibiotics?
I find that this story is not believable.
 
Watched a program on one of the hunting stations a few days ago and a he was hunting Havalinas (pigs) with a 9mm/short rifle at close range. When I say close range I mean 15 yards or so. One shot stopped the pig in its tracks, the second pig ran with the first shot and was killed with the second.
 
javelinas (collared peccaries not pigs) don't get up to anywhere near full grown whitetail deer weight. Most javelinas are around the 60lbs. 9mm would probably make good work of them.
 
I'm one of the pro 223 guys, as long as you recogonize the rounds limitations and don't shoot at ranges beyond it's capabilities.

Call me a hypocrite, but I don't feel the same about a 9mm. I suppose from even more limited ranges it will work, but is more limited than I'm willing to commit to. A 223 with expanding bullets shot at fairly close range is devastating to even a large deer. (but nothing larger, or with thicker skinned in my opinion). They are also capable of extreme accuracy for pinpoint shooting.

You're not going to go get anywhere near the level of accuracy from a 9mm carbine you will get from a 223 rifle. While some 9mm loadings, from a carbine do approach 357 mag velocities, that is when you compare 125 gr bullets. The 357 mag needs 180 gr or heavier bullets to get the penetration needed for humane kills. I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting 125 grain bullets at deer from a long barreled 357 or 9mm. Heavier bullets, yes.
 
Unethical. " not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior" :) truer words have never described me more perfectly than that because I have never for one instant cared what someone eles thought of me or what I did. I have never lost a deer that I shot. Never had to blood trail any deer that I shot with my rifle or pistol, only my bow did I have to. If that makes me unethical, then so be it :).
 
Ignorance is correctable. Stupid aint
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You mis-spelled ain't. But you're right, ignorance is correctable.

Sorry, don't take it personally, I'm a retired school teacher and just couldn't help myself.
 
You mis-spelled ain't. But you're right, ignorance is correctable.

Sorry, don't take it personally, I'm a retired school teacher and just couldn't help myself.
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I was always told "ain't ain't a word" which is why I used it in an attempt to convey irony. I guess I'll have to fix that
 
You do not need a 180 gr. bullet in .357 mag for deer. Federal makes .357 mag ammo with a 140 gr. Barnes Expander bullet, and this ammo is designed for deer hunting not personal protection. Federal says this ammo offering has 'ideal performance on deer'. The fact is the .357 mag has bullets and ammo designed for deer hunting. To my knowledge, the 9x19 does not have any ammo or bullet designed for any type of hunting. I would not hesitate to use a good 9x19 JHP on a coyote (legal where I hunt), but never a deer unless I was doing it for survival.

There are several 9mm cartridges so do not assume it is a 9x19 when you hear 9mm for a handgun. There are even 9mm cartridges made for rifles.

Bullet selection is very important. In a previous post, it was mentioned a 'small deer' was hit 21 times with .30 cal deer hunting rifles. If the bullet is of poor design for hunting it will not perform well. This is why match ammo is not recommended for deer hunting, and the manufactures will state this on their website. If the bullet is designed for bigger game, it will not likely perform well on smaller deer. You want the shock wave to occur at the proper depth in the animal for a quick and clean kill. It was stated the 'small deer' went down for a very short time and then popped up and started running again. This indicates there was very little shock wave inside the body cavity of that small deer. Too much gun for hunting will not work as well as the proper combination of bullet selection, caliber and power level. The same can be said for personal protection from two legged threats.
 
I would have to say that the 9mm might make a dandy small game round, but no for the Deer unless you're in a real survival situation and then still no to 100 yards and perhaps head shots only.

I think what the thread is quietly implying is that everyone needs at least one 44 Mag....:D
 
Last year on our Va youth hunt (I didn't find out until 4 days before the hunt) my son took a 95lb doe with my sub 2k 9mm. We used pdx +p FWIW he shot the deer a little far back but still caught both lungs, you just can't trust 6yo's with a red dot....LOL Tracking was just like a shot with a bow and we waited just like it was shot with a bow.

I just bought him a 7mm-08 last weekend for this years hunt if that tells you anything about my impression of the 9mm as a deer gun.

He could have shot it better but didn't, same shot with my 270 or 308 and the deer would have went down in it's tracks.
 
My question first is why ?....if you are talking about a survival situation life and death need to feed your family is one thing, hunting deer with a 9mm for any other reason is nonsense. All of the argument about which caliber is better for deer aside chose one of them as anything other than a 22lr is better than a 9mm. All options should be based on the premis of taking the animal as quickly and humanely as possible.
 
I'm not debating the 9mm question. I think your mind was already made up before you posted the question. In my opinion if the shot (or bullet) is questionable, then why risk injuring an animal you may never recover.
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I think his mind is already made up, too:

The only difference between the vanquished and victorious is resolve.
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I surmise that the OP has resolved to "ask" about hunting with ever smaller, weaker cartridges ...... the other day it was .357 Mag out of a carbine.....

Is .380 next, tahuana? Mehbee .25 auto? You just stirrin' the pot, right?

There are better rounds out there to hunt deer with.

If you are going to ask what is the smallest that will kill a deer, then .22lr will do it...... probably ...... most of the time ....... if you are close enough...... and don't miss the brain ...... and the skull does not deflect the bullet...........
 
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