7mm vs 30-06
- Thread starter pdt1793db
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Neither one will add any more versitility to your collection because you are overlaping your cartridges quite a bit as it is. What you need is a larger than .30 caliber rifle if you want to improve your collection. The .270 and .30-06 will not do anything that the 7mm Rem or .308 will not do.
Firepower!
New member
Mike I wish 300 was availabe in Pakistan, but its not. 358 and 300 wthby are but no bullets!
Some expensive 375 HH are but old!
Some expensive 375 HH are but old!
ForneyRider
New member
You can get Remington 55gr Accelerators (4000 fps) for .30-06.
Firepower!
New member
tylorce1....thank you for the advice. I almost wasted good moeny adding something I dont need.
I guess I will keep me eye out for a 300 WSM or bigger cartridge.
I guess I will keep me eye out for a 300 WSM or bigger cartridge.
milemission
New member
Firepower, the .270 fits in between the 7x57 and 7mm Remington Magnum insofar as ballistics. As far as killing power, well, I have a 7x57 and the longest kill I have on a deer with it is probably about 300 yards or so. I also once shot a big buck at 175 in the spine that went down instantly. Really, insofar as any cartridge that has the power and velocity of a 6.5x55 or more, the difference on deer sized game at less than 300 yards isn't worth arguing over. Within 300 yards, my 7 Mauser will kill any deer on earth, and within 200 to 250 with proper bullets, any elk on earth. So arguing over .30-06 versus 7mm Magnum for game when there isn't a significant difference until you reach 500+ yards isn't exactly worthwhile.
If you want to expand the versatility of your arsenal, a .300 magnum will be slightly better for elk at longer ranges than the 7mm Magnum. But a .338 would be even better. A .338 Win Mag would probably do just as well as a .300 mag for elk at any range. A .338-06 isn't as good as a .300 win mag for elk beyond 300 yards, but it also shoots heavier bullets, making possibly better at closer range (possibly). But your 7mm Magnum will already do over 95% of what a .300 magnum will. So with what you have, if you want to have more versatility at the upper end, get a .338 magnum.
On the other hand, if you want more versatility for the various rodentia, get a .223 or a .22-250.
If you want to expand the versatility of your arsenal, a .300 magnum will be slightly better for elk at longer ranges than the 7mm Magnum. But a .338 would be even better. A .338 Win Mag would probably do just as well as a .300 mag for elk at any range. A .338-06 isn't as good as a .300 win mag for elk beyond 300 yards, but it also shoots heavier bullets, making possibly better at closer range (possibly). But your 7mm Magnum will already do over 95% of what a .300 magnum will. So with what you have, if you want to have more versatility at the upper end, get a .338 magnum.
On the other hand, if you want more versatility for the various rodentia, get a .223 or a .22-250.
Firepower!
New member
Mike, I guess my next purchase will have to be 375HH. Its the only one other than what I have available here. I wish a 700NE and .50 were as well. I have .223 but those are in assualt rifle platforms.
For now I am happy with what I have, and I quite convinced that I made a better choice by picking 7mag over 06. It seems from the post that folks are trying to measure 06 upto 7mag. Thus, there is an edge in favour of 7mag, regardless of how much it is! I think leaving .243 and 308 aside, I am well prepared for any game upto 250 yards between 7x57 and 7mag. Its really the shot placement. That said a 7x57 might be just what I need period. I think these big cals are gimmicks to sell. Most oldtime hunters in Africa used 7x57 on pretty much anything. I doubt I can make a kill shot beyond 250-300. I am not a professional sniper
For now I am happy with what I have, and I quite convinced that I made a better choice by picking 7mag over 06. It seems from the post that folks are trying to measure 06 upto 7mag. Thus, there is an edge in favour of 7mag, regardless of how much it is! I think leaving .243 and 308 aside, I am well prepared for any game upto 250 yards between 7x57 and 7mag. Its really the shot placement. That said a 7x57 might be just what I need period. I think these big cals are gimmicks to sell. Most oldtime hunters in Africa used 7x57 on pretty much anything. I doubt I can make a kill shot beyond 250-300. I am not a professional sniper
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Without belaboring the issue, the ability to reliably hit targets beyond 300 yards is a function of practice and thought. You can teach yourself to be a pretty good judge of distance and wind. You can memorize the trajectories of your most commonly-used rifles. You can practice from a shooting table in order to get basic proficiency--and then use field-position stances to turn it all into real-world skill.
Age and common sense have me pulling back, nowadays, but I did have some forty good years of, "If it's inside 500 yards, I own it."
, Art
Age and common sense have me pulling back, nowadays, but I did have some forty good years of, "If it's inside 500 yards, I own it."
, ArtMajor Dave (retired)
New member
7 Mag chrony results?
Art, you mentioned chrony results on your 30-06 - have you ever run a 7 Mag thru the screens? I ask because a Field & Stream article indicated that the 7 Mag was, "the most over rated caliber" when compared to .270, .280, and 30-06, when chronigraphed alongside the others.
My Chrony says my 7x57, loaded with 140 g Hornadays produces a MV of 2,950, wirh a 23 inch barrel. Blows holes as big as your thumb completely through Texas deer. Some flop, others take off on a "death run" of 50 to 75 yards, then flop.
The same result you would expect from all of the calibers being discussed, I think.
Art, you mentioned chrony results on your 30-06 - have you ever run a 7 Mag thru the screens? I ask because a Field & Stream article indicated that the 7 Mag was, "the most over rated caliber" when compared to .270, .280, and 30-06, when chronigraphed alongside the others.
My Chrony says my 7x57, loaded with 140 g Hornadays produces a MV of 2,950, wirh a 23 inch barrel. Blows holes as big as your thumb completely through Texas deer. Some flop, others take off on a "death run" of 50 to 75 yards, then flop.
The same result you would expect from all of the calibers being discussed, I think.
Well, once again here are a bunch of put downs against the most versital cartridge in the world The 30-06 Lets look at the facts PLEASE!!!! First to the gentleman who said the 7mm RM would run off and leave the 30-06 I say to you Sir You have no idea what you are talking about. Max load for a 7mm with 175 gr Buttets 2850 FPS out of a 24 in bbl ( Hornady Loading Manual)
30-06 180 gr Hornady Light Magnum Ammo 2900 FPS 24 in bbl
Now last time I checked 2900 fps was faster then 2850 and the 30-06 is pushing a 5 gr heavier bullet. My Father- in- law Has worked up a load for his 30-06 24 in bbl that will rival a 300 WM Loading of over 3000 FPS with 180 gr Bullets. Now if you go down to 22 in both calibers you get 2850 fps with the 180 gr 30-06 load and since the 7mm started at 2850 you will loose about 75 - 100 fps vel in the 7mm load. In the actual real world The 7mm magnum is a HYPE caliber and the 30-06, with over 100 yrs of field service to back it up and with the new advances in powder, which don't seem to help the magnums much, The 30-06 still stands where it has for 102 yrs as the most effecient and versital cartridge ever developed. THIS IS PROVEN FACT NOT SOMETHING DREAMED UP BY ADVERIZING EXECS FOR THE PURPOSE OF SELLING A RIFLE. Why do you think the 30-06 doesn't get advertized it doesn't need it. I guess what I am saying to Firepower is get rid of all the others and buy a 30-06 it will serve you on most any game and then all you'll need is a 22 caliber CF for varments and something like a 338 Win Mag for big bears if you go to Africa Hunting you are on your own partner. BTW I have only ONE hunting rifle A Win Mod 70 FWT 30-06. As if you didn't know.
Jim
30-06 180 gr Hornady Light Magnum Ammo 2900 FPS 24 in bbl
Now last time I checked 2900 fps was faster then 2850 and the 30-06 is pushing a 5 gr heavier bullet. My Father- in- law Has worked up a load for his 30-06 24 in bbl that will rival a 300 WM Loading of over 3000 FPS with 180 gr Bullets. Now if you go down to 22 in both calibers you get 2850 fps with the 180 gr 30-06 load and since the 7mm started at 2850 you will loose about 75 - 100 fps vel in the 7mm load. In the actual real world The 7mm magnum is a HYPE caliber and the 30-06, with over 100 yrs of field service to back it up and with the new advances in powder, which don't seem to help the magnums much, The 30-06 still stands where it has for 102 yrs as the most effecient and versital cartridge ever developed. THIS IS PROVEN FACT NOT SOMETHING DREAMED UP BY ADVERIZING EXECS FOR THE PURPOSE OF SELLING A RIFLE. Why do you think the 30-06 doesn't get advertized it doesn't need it. I guess what I am saying to Firepower is get rid of all the others and buy a 30-06 it will serve you on most any game and then all you'll need is a 22 caliber CF for varments and something like a 338 Win Mag for big bears if you go to Africa Hunting you are on your own partner. BTW I have only ONE hunting rifle A Win Mod 70 FWT 30-06. As if you didn't know.
Jim
First big game rifle I bought was Rem 700 7 mag when I was 16.I went to buy a .270 but it had a problem and the 7 was in the rack and I was leaving with a rifle.
Old Louie sold H-4831 bulk for $1.60 a lb,bring your own bleach bottle.Now,that was OLD style 4831.
16 year olds are smarter than most everybody else so I loaded 70 gr behind a 160 gr Sierra boat tail as my standard load (DO NOT TRY THIS,4831 IS DIFFERENT POWDER NOW!!)
PO Ackley said that was about 65,000 psi.I did not have a chronograph,but I did have busted glasses and a cut eyebrow.Sucker sure would shoot,though.
Which brings me to a point.SAAMI pressures are low on a 7 MAG as a lot of smiths were custom building them on Mausers and Springfields and there wasn't a lot of control over what rifle they were in.It is a 1963 cartridge.
That is an amusing comparison with the STW.It gets a bit more performance,but at much greater pressure.I am not suggesting you ignore SAAMI,but it explains the low performance in the tables.
In bbls less than 26 inches,I would not prefer the 7 mag over the '06.
In my experience,given both animals will be dead,you will have more meat to eat with the 06
For a mountain packing general hunt rifle,I might prefer a 22 in bbl.
But,for a long range plains rifle,the 7 can be good .I wont tell you my load,but I chrono 3050 with a 162 gr Horn SST .I do not use it for big game hunting.It is a varmint gun.(MDL70 Laredo,4.5-14 Leu long range 30 mmMil dot,Nightforce 20' bases.I have a custom made elevation knob for my altitude /load that goes to 1400 yds)
Another use for this rifle might be the finisher,for when others are optimistic about their long range ability.
The 7 mag is good.Read old Warren Page articles,he loved it.Use a bonded bullet,and IMO,160 gr or so.
You got it,enjoy it!!!
Old Louie sold H-4831 bulk for $1.60 a lb,bring your own bleach bottle.Now,that was OLD style 4831.
16 year olds are smarter than most everybody else so I loaded 70 gr behind a 160 gr Sierra boat tail as my standard load (DO NOT TRY THIS,4831 IS DIFFERENT POWDER NOW!!)
PO Ackley said that was about 65,000 psi.I did not have a chronograph,but I did have busted glasses and a cut eyebrow.Sucker sure would shoot,though.
Which brings me to a point.SAAMI pressures are low on a 7 MAG as a lot of smiths were custom building them on Mausers and Springfields and there wasn't a lot of control over what rifle they were in.It is a 1963 cartridge.
That is an amusing comparison with the STW.It gets a bit more performance,but at much greater pressure.I am not suggesting you ignore SAAMI,but it explains the low performance in the tables.
In bbls less than 26 inches,I would not prefer the 7 mag over the '06.
In my experience,given both animals will be dead,you will have more meat to eat with the 06
For a mountain packing general hunt rifle,I might prefer a 22 in bbl.
But,for a long range plains rifle,the 7 can be good .I wont tell you my load,but I chrono 3050 with a 162 gr Horn SST .I do not use it for big game hunting.It is a varmint gun.(MDL70 Laredo,4.5-14 Leu long range 30 mmMil dot,Nightforce 20' bases.I have a custom made elevation knob for my altitude /load that goes to 1400 yds)
Another use for this rifle might be the finisher,for when others are optimistic about their long range ability.
The 7 mag is good.Read old Warren Page articles,he loved it.Use a bonded bullet,and IMO,160 gr or so.
You got it,enjoy it!!!
decisions, decisions...
Say I was offered either as a present? I would accept either with glee and use it with joy!
If I have to buy it myself, and if both rifles are EXACTLY the same in appearance, quality, etc, I shall buy the 30-06. Why? Simply because I eat the meat I shoot and therefore I like a heavy bullet (180-220) to stike the animal at no more than 2 400 ft/sec. I doubt if you are going to shoot your game at more than 200 m, and likely at 100-150. 200 grain well constructed commercial ammunition shall serve your purpose admirably in dense bush, and for plains shots 168 gr is excellent.
My final advice? Pick up each rifle in turn, look at it closely, bring it into your shoulder and feel its comfort, where your cheek instinctively rests in relation to the sight picture, etc. Carry it in your hands, turn around and bring it into your shoulder again. (you are going to carry it around over quite some distances). Does it feel easy and nicely balanced?
Oh, and do not be worried one second about the 22" barrel on the 30-06. No animal that you shall ever shoot shall know that it is not a 24"! Small, paper figures of energy relative to other small paper figures of energy - still enough for an overkill on moose, elk, deer, with no value in practice.
Enjoy!
And very important - listen to your heart's response. That one that talks to your heart, that one is the one to buy because both are excellent calibres.
Say I was offered either as a present? I would accept either with glee and use it with joy!
If I have to buy it myself, and if both rifles are EXACTLY the same in appearance, quality, etc, I shall buy the 30-06. Why? Simply because I eat the meat I shoot and therefore I like a heavy bullet (180-220) to stike the animal at no more than 2 400 ft/sec. I doubt if you are going to shoot your game at more than 200 m, and likely at 100-150. 200 grain well constructed commercial ammunition shall serve your purpose admirably in dense bush, and for plains shots 168 gr is excellent.
My final advice? Pick up each rifle in turn, look at it closely, bring it into your shoulder and feel its comfort, where your cheek instinctively rests in relation to the sight picture, etc. Carry it in your hands, turn around and bring it into your shoulder again. (you are going to carry it around over quite some distances). Does it feel easy and nicely balanced?
Oh, and do not be worried one second about the 22" barrel on the 30-06. No animal that you shall ever shoot shall know that it is not a 24"! Small, paper figures of energy relative to other small paper figures of energy - still enough for an overkill on moose, elk, deer, with no value in practice.
Enjoy!
And very important - listen to your heart's response. That one that talks to your heart, that one is the one to buy because both are excellent calibres.
Brad Clodfelter
New member
I'm not here to argue. I always said the 30-06 is really all you need in a caliber for most North American game. But you still can't knock the 7mm Rem Mag. The 7mm diameter bullets are probably one of the best ballistic co-efficient bullets offered. You can handload a 30-06 pushing the limits for powder volume and get extended ballistics that will rival a 7mm Rem Mag. But your pushing the pressures at doing so. For guys that don't handload, you still get more overall performance from most factory loads out of the 7mm Rem Mag vs the 30-06. There may be a few exceptions. But you can also handload a 7mm Rem Mag to give you added performance vs most factory offerings as well. To knock the 7mm Rem Mag because it may not be much of a difference from the 30-06 for some to say why was the cartridge even in existence is not really fair. Every little bit of speed and knockdown power is worth noting. The 7mm Rem Mag still pushes most every grain bullet flatter and faster than most 30-06 offerings.
sc928porsche
New member
The 7mm mag shoots flatter than the 06 with about the same or more power depending on bullet weight and style.
Advantage: Less hold over or under at different distances.
Disadvantage: Less bullet weight and style selection.
Advantage: Less hold over or under at different distances.
Disadvantage: Less bullet weight and style selection.
Brad Clodfelter
New member
The price of ammo I will agree with you on.
The recoil difference I won't.
Both actually have dang near identical recoil.
I did a read from a guy who had the facts about recoil from the 7MM Rem Mag vs the 30-06. He said that there is only a 1/2lb difference in force to the shooters shoulder in pounds felt. The loads he compared had the 30-06 at 22.5lbs. and the 7MM Rem Mag at 23lbs. Now that ain't much difference to me. I have owned both, and can tell you I can't feel much difference either.
Both kick, but are like a flea compared to my Mossberg 835 shooting 3.5" 2 and 1/4oz turkey loads. They have 72lbs of felt recoil. That is over 3 times as much.
The recoil difference I won't.
Both actually have dang near identical recoil.
I did a read from a guy who had the facts about recoil from the 7MM Rem Mag vs the 30-06. He said that there is only a 1/2lb difference in force to the shooters shoulder in pounds felt. The loads he compared had the 30-06 at 22.5lbs. and the 7MM Rem Mag at 23lbs. Now that ain't much difference to me. I have owned both, and can tell you I can't feel much difference either.
Both kick, but are like a flea compared to my Mossberg 835 shooting 3.5" 2 and 1/4oz turkey loads. They have 72lbs of felt recoil. That is over 3 times as much.
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Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
For any rifles of equal weight:
Add the weight of the bullet to the weight of the powder charge. Multiply the sum by the muzzle velocity.
Compare the results, insofar as percentage difference in recoil.
For the .270 and the '06, the common loadings of powder are in the 50- to 55-grain range. For the 7mm RemMag, 70 to 75 grains. (Speer #13 reloading manual).
.270: 55 gr.; 130 @ 3,000. '06: 55 gr.; 150 @ 2,900. 7mm: 70 gr.; 140 @ 3,300.
The math is left as an exercise for the student.
Add the weight of the bullet to the weight of the powder charge. Multiply the sum by the muzzle velocity.
Compare the results, insofar as percentage difference in recoil.
For the .270 and the '06, the common loadings of powder are in the 50- to 55-grain range. For the 7mm RemMag, 70 to 75 grains. (Speer #13 reloading manual).
.270: 55 gr.; 130 @ 3,000. '06: 55 gr.; 150 @ 2,900. 7mm: 70 gr.; 140 @ 3,300.
The math is left as an exercise for the student.
Brad Clodfelter
New member
Art,
The recoil difference between the 2 calibers is not much difference at least to my shoulder. I'm sure there are more hotter factory offerings since I read that article.
The whole point is this. Anyone who thinks a 7MM Mag is too much recoil for a deer gun, doesn't need to be shooting 3" or 3.5" turkey loads out of their turkey guns at turkeys then. All centerfire rifles from the 25-06 on up will kick a little. It's just the way it is. If you can't stand to have a pop to your shoulder and still manage to hit what you aim at, either toughen up and hit the weights and get used to it, or don't be shooting much of the bigger higher powered rifle cartridges.
Like I said, all centerfire rifles for the most part are tame in felt recoil as compared to heavy 3.5" turkey loads. When I shoot a turkey from my 3.5" Mossberg, the jar to my shoulder is the last thing I'm worried about.
The recoil difference between the 2 calibers is not much difference at least to my shoulder. I'm sure there are more hotter factory offerings since I read that article.
The whole point is this. Anyone who thinks a 7MM Mag is too much recoil for a deer gun, doesn't need to be shooting 3" or 3.5" turkey loads out of their turkey guns at turkeys then. All centerfire rifles from the 25-06 on up will kick a little. It's just the way it is. If you can't stand to have a pop to your shoulder and still manage to hit what you aim at, either toughen up and hit the weights and get used to it, or don't be shooting much of the bigger higher powered rifle cartridges.
Like I said, all centerfire rifles for the most part are tame in felt recoil as compared to heavy 3.5" turkey loads. When I shoot a turkey from my 3.5" Mossberg, the jar to my shoulder is the last thing I'm worried about.
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