7mm vs 30-06

Mtn Hawk,
Why do you hate the 7mm magnum so much?

Quote from from you on another 7mm mag thread.

Quote:
I've always thought the magnum calibers are for "hunters" who don't know how to hunt or shoot well and think unnecessary power makes up for their poor skills.
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I can't say that I don't disagree with Mtn Hawk on his points of view. I own a 7mm Rem Mag and I cant' warm up to it at all. All it does is cost me more to shoot and it really doesn't do anything a whole lot better than my .270 Win or .30-06.

I have a friend who fits in the category of the quote of Mtn Hawk's that was used. For years he hunted with a .30-06 and couldn't shoot it without flinching and always blamed his poor shots on the rifle. So he went out and bought a .300 Win Mag wanting more killing power because the 06 just couldn't do it in his eyes.

His .300 is a Weatherby Vanguard with a muzzle brake and recoil pad, his 06 is a Savage 110 with just a plastic butt plate. I told him to forget the .300 and buy a decent recoil pad for his 06 and he would shoot it better. Because of the reduced recoil his Vanguard gives him he has became a better shot but he hates to feed that .300, he was just too stubborn to take my advice.

I do want to own a .375 H&H someday but I'll probably wind up with the .375 Ruger as my 7mm Rem Mag will make a good donor. That will get rid of my last rifle with Magnum in the description. I would put my 8mm-06, .338-06, and .35 Whelen up there in the recoil department along with any Magnum rifle when I use 200+ grain bullets, in fact I would guess the .338 Win doesn't have much more recoil than these rifles.

I'm just honest enough with myself to realize I haven't completely mastered these rifles, after about 10 rounds out of any of them I have to put them away for the day. Any more rounds than that and I develop some serious bad habits that will take many an hour to get rid of. The reality of it is I've never needed a different rifle for hunting after I bought my .270; until I hunt dangerous game, other than for wanting to try something different.

I vote for the .30-06 because that is really all a hunter will ever need to hunt North America with.
 
With today's laser range-finders, and with some scopes having some variety of ranging system built in, the need for ultra-flat trajectories is much reduced. If the trajectory of a cartridge is somewhat basketball-like, so what? If you know the distance and you know the trajectory, you can hit the target with almost any old cartridge.

The "horsepower" differential of any Maggie over "lesser" cartridges thus becomes merely an exercise in added recoil...
 
Capp35--

Mtn Hawk,
Why do you hate the 7mm magnum so much?
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I don't hate anything. It takes too much energy.

I am not emotionally attached to any caliber, just use what works best for what I need, considering all the factors involved.

Desertscout1 and taylorce1 have covered many of the reasons there are better caliber choices than the "magnums" for hunting in North America.

Have you ever seen the data for wind drift on a ballistics chart?
 
You decide

7mm Rem Mag 162gr. Amax BC.625 3000fps Max Load

100yds 2847 fps 2916 energy bullet drop +1.4 Wind Drift 10mph .4
300yds 2557 fps 2352 energy bullet drop -6.1 Wind Drift 10mph 4.3
600yds 2155 fps 1671 energy bullet drop -59 Wind Drift 10 mph 18.9
1000yds 1681 fps 1016 energy bullet drop -240.4 Wind Drift 10mph 59.5

30-06 168gr Amax BC .475 2900fps Max Load

100yd 2705 fps 2729 energy bullet drop +1.6 Wind Drift 10mph .6
300yd 2338 fps 2040 energy bullet drop -7.1 Wind Drift 10mph 6.1
600yd 1844 fps 1269 energy bullet drop -71 Wind Drift 10mph 27.8
1000yd 1316 fps 646 energy bullet drop -312.8 Wind Drift 10mph 91.2

Information Based on 200yd Zero

Loads can be found Hornady 7th edition Handbook
ballistics from Hornady.com ballistics calculator

Lyman 48th Editon Reloading Handbook States about 7mm Rem Mag

It started as the need for a cartridge with more punch than the 30-06 but not more recoil

I own 3 30-06s and 1 7mm Rem Mag, the 7mm is my personal favorite, simply because in my case the 7mm is far more accurate out of my 700 BDL then any of the 06's . I can shoot 3 shot 1/2 groups at 200yds on a good day with it .. The most I can get out of the 06's is a little over an inch. All with handloads. I don't use factory rounds so I have no information on them in either caliber

My advice is to pick what you feel is best suited for you do to Ammo in your area, and the cost you want to pay.. 7mm is a little more expensive, Ammo is a little harder to come by in some areas. You are not going to go wrong with either caliber as long as the gun is accurate. You can get .30 caliber bullets in a larger weight range. 7mm Bullets tend to have a better BC than the 30s but that don't come in to play until you are out past 300yds which is about where most average shoots tend to fall off anyway.
 
this almost seems like it's turning into one of these 9 vs .45 debates... :rolleyes:

I have a .30-06. I like the price of ammo. I do not like the trajectory as per the diagram above when compared to a 7mm caliber or magnum. Physics over distance works in the 7's favor. However since I'm only hunting mostly deer maybe a little elk and not moose or hairy mammoths I don't need a huge magnum. Being a college student I can't afford to feed magnums, but it's somthing about that punch when you send a 160 gr projectile downrange at mach 3 that makes it seem more manly to others... :p
 
I have a friend who fits in the category of the quote of Mtn Hawk's that was used
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I know they are out there, but the guy I hunt with that shoots a 7mm Rem Mag is absolutely the best shot I have ever known (OK, second best to his dad, RIP). He likes the extra range the 7 gives him, and he can actually shoot well enough to make it important.

But his back-up gun is an -06....:D
 
I think several people hit on the main idea. It is what ever feels best for you and that you are comfortable using. They are both great rounds and I have owned both.
I don't notice any recoil difference between my old 06 and the 7mm, but I went to a heavier rifle.
I am more accurate with my 7mag also (most accurate rifle I have ever owned), but that could be due to the rifle and premium optics.

I also have more confidence in my new rifle and can clover leaf my shots. Isn't good shooting at least 1/3 confidence in what you shoot?

As far as the cost of shooting, or wearing the barrel out, that is void to me. I shoot 2-3 boxes a year before deer season, to check accuracy and get comfortable with it again. (I shoot twice a month though with pistols)

So there again, buy/shoot what you enjoy and are confident in.
 
7mm Rem Mag 162gr. Amax BC .625 3000fps Max Load

300yds 2557 fps 2352 energy bullet drop -6.1 Wind Drift 10mph 4.3


30-06 168gr Amax BC .475 2900fps Max Load

300yd 2338 fps 2040 energy bullet drop -7.1 Wind Drift 10mph 6.1

1" difference @ 300 yards means exactly jack squat in a hunting situtation. This discussion has degenerated into the likes of "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin".
 
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yeah, but if you are looking for trajectory, look no further than the 140 BTSP for the ole 7 mag. Both are good guns, the 7mag is just better...;)
 
I don't reckon an inch or two of trajectory is of enough importance to justify choosing one over the other. If it is expected that there would be shots out around 600 yards as a matter of course, the 7mm Rem with a good 160-grain bullet would outshine the '06. From 500 on in, though, it's not enough difference to care about.

Much beyond 300, knowing the range is important no matter which is chosen. Beyond 400, they're both getting an attack of basketballitis.
 
yeah, but if you are looking for trajectory, look no further than the 140 BTSP for the ole 7 mag. Both are good guns, the 7mag is just better...
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That is solely dependent on what load you use. Since there is no 140 gr bullet that I know of for the '06, that's not quite a fair comparison but, if you use a 10 grain heavier bullet and go with a 150 for the '06 and start them both out of the gate at the same speed, they vitually ballistic twins. Let's start them both out at 3000 fps. Yes, they can both be made to go faster but, as I said earlier, since they ballistic doubles, you can make either one out do the other. It just depends on the individual.
Assuming we start them both out at 300 fps, the 7 mag shoots 2" flatter at 800 yards! At more reasonable ranges, say, 400 yards, there is .11" difference. Eleven hundredths of an inch.

A 130 grain '06 shoots flatter than both of them.
 
One of the reasons I like the Sierra reloading handbook is because the appendices include lots of information on external ballistics. All of these comparisons, out to six hundred yards, are right there in the book.

I say the stuff I say because I cheat: I read the book.

:D:D:D
 
Hmmm. You see a lot of 7mm magnums in the pawn shops and on used dealers tables at gun shows but not too many 30-06 rifles. This says something considering there are probably 50 30-06 out there for every 7mm magnum. What I think it says but can't prove it is that people buy the 7mm and then don't like it for one reason or another and sell it but they keep their 30-06.
 
Another Number

There is another number to look at when comparing two cartridges of different calibers. Compare the sectional density of similar weight 30 caliber and 7mm bullets. The 7 does have slight advantage in any given weight.
 
I did the obvious-I bought a new one of each caliber in the last month. I will let you guys know in a few weeks which I think is better & why.

I load all of my own ammo and one thing I noticed already is that brass for the 7 mag is pricey... and they do eat a lot of powder. I have loaded 20 rounds of Ballistic Tip Boat Tails for the 7MM (140 grain), and 20 of the 150 grain FBSP (Hornady) for the -06.

If this post is still around in a few weeks I will weigh in with my official report as to which I like better.

I realize that brand, weight, optics, cosmetics, functionality will play as much, if not more, a role in my choice than actual caliber. Disregard my choice as it really won't matter.....

It would be easier to choose which caliber by simply test firing a gun and see which one you are more accurate with, and which one FEELS better to you.
 
If you are content at loafing the .30-06 out at 2650 fps, and compare it to a 7mm at 2900 fps, then you have some ballistical differences. However, if you load the .30-06 up to where it performs the best at the 2900 fps mark and then compare it to the 7, then the difference in ballistics are not much different.

I am running my .30-06 right close to 2950 fps with 165 gr boat tails. I can do anything you can do with your 7mm, with less powder, with less recoil, with less muzzleblast, longer case life, and less meat damage.
 
Lot's of various opinions. I'll give you mine. These are two of my personal favorite cartridges along with the 270 Win. Both will do what you are wanting them to do. Having shot both on deer, I'm gonna give the nod to the 7MM Rem Mag. It just seems to kill deer quicker and hits them harder with more ft/lbs of energy. It shoots flatter too.
 
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