7mm vs 30-06

Also, since we are knit picking. ;)

Show me any factory 30-06 load that will push over 2200fps at the 500yd mark. ;)

The loads I showed you above will. That's what I call carrying out the velocity of a bullet. That's why I like the 7MM Rem Mag. That velocity retention means added knockdown power at all ranges one you get out there a bit.

Now if you were to tell me the 300 Win Mag is better than the 7MM Rem Mag, you would get no arguement from me. I can justify with the ballistics to why you may want to say that. I also know a few guys that kill deer with them each year. They too are a deer buster.
 
I don't like 7's just because of the way they sound, not anything to do with how they perform
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I've never ever judged a deer cartridge by the way they sound. :confused:

That statement right there tells me you don't want to ever do a side-by-side comparison between two calibers because you would only judge the actual performance of the two by the way they sound. :D

But hey, to each his own. :D

Your deer rifle may beat mine in ballistics, but it sounds like crap. LOL!
 
Brad -

At the ranges I have killed mulies and seen them killed, the sound of the rifle is the only difference.

I have yet to kill a deer over 150 yds (probably even that is a stretch - 100 yds and some change maybe). That is why I am not worried about fps at 500 yds. I would not take that long of a shot with either, because I don't practice at that range. If you can make use of the increased range, I have no quarrel with the 7.

Honestly, do you think that there is that great of an advantage under 300 yds?

My huntin partner gives me grief about my slow -06 and I give him grief about his loud 7, and we both fill out tags.

I will be hunting this year with a .460 SW pistol anyway, so I am not sure why I jumped in here....:D
 
If what I'm using kills deer dead, how can some other cartridge make my deer drop deader?

If I have no trouble in making hits at 300 to 400 yards, how can some other cartridge lessen "no trouble"?
 
Has the 300 Win.Mag. been put on the back burner due to all the new cartridges out there? I think the 300 win mag is one of the best big game rounds out there next to a 30-30. The main reason I like my 30-30 is it flat out kills stuff dead. And I believe more North American big game animals have been taken with it over any other out there. Including Elk,Bear and Moose. I like to get up close with the game I hunt and try to get within 100yds(or less) no matter what gun im shooting. It just proves to myself that I am a hunter and not a marksman shooting 500-600yds with a 15mph crosswind. If I can get within 20 yds of a whitetail with a long bow, getting within 100yds with a rifle or slug gun is a piece of cake. (just my own thoughts)
 
Art,

I never ever complained about overkill. The philosophy that dead is dead is very true, but I would much rather have a cartridge that would overkill my deer than underkill it any day. I think too many people like to say you don't need a 7MM Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag because they are in fact overkill. I say that is hogwash. The ballistics speak for each of these cartridges. Sure there are those that say ballistics don't kill deer. But if that was the case, why the trend for all those that used to own 30-30 Winchesters to the flatter shooting calibers like the 270, 7MM-08, 30-06, or 308? Hunters have gotten smarter over the years and learned to extend their range rather than limit yourself to a 150-200yd shot from a 30-30. I say don't blame a cartridge that shoots flatter and beats other cartridges when it comes to overall ballistics and performace on game. I like the 7MM Rem Mag because it flat gets the job done, and reatains its velocity as well as any other round. More and more hunters are realizing the benefits of overall performance that this cartridge will give you. Do you need the extra advantage the 7MM Rem Mag gives you over the 30-06? That's up to you to decide, but don't hate the caliber because it's overkill to you or that it beats up on your cartridge of choice. Accept it for what it is. It's a super whitetail rifle.
 
Brad,

I know you are a staunch advocate for your 7mm Rem Mag, but I have to disagree with you on the fact that it extends you range. With either the .30-06 or the 7mm Rem Mag with a 200 yard zero both bullets fall outside a 10" vital zone between 300-400 yards and that is if you are holding high on the vital zone. If you hold dead center the vital zone with a 200 yard zero the .30-06 drops 5" around 270 yards and the 7mm drops 5" around 290 yards. So roughly all the 7mm does is gain you 20 extra yards over the .30-06. Now if the 7mm would gain an extra 50-60 yards over the .30-06 I'd figure it to beat a great improvement. Any guy with a decent range finder and the dope worked up on his rifle can overcome any disadvantage of the .30-06 pretty easily past 500 yards.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=PRA3006C*PRSC7MMB
 
I'll agree with that Taylor. There are certain type bullets that you can push through the 30-06 and get just about as good as performance(ballistics) as the 30-06. The Scirocco bullet is one of them. I did not know that the bullet would hit the 2200fps mark at 500yds from the load. I should have looked. So that is my fault. It actually does well over it which surprises me. Most bullets being pushed ove the years from what I have seen just seems to be in favor for the 7MM Rem Mag du to it's smaller diameter which seems to do better in trajectory performance.

So with that, I'll conclude that the 30-06 can be made to dang near match the overall performance of the 7MM Rem Mag. I just hate to see someone give a bad rap to a good cartridge when it comes to shooting most typical bullets with excellent overall downrange ballistics. ;)
 
Definatly not giving the 7mm Rem Mag a bad rap, it is a good cartridge in it's own right. The 7mm Rem Mag was just very well marketed and most people bought it hook, line, and sinker. The truth is while it is a good cartridge it is only marginaly better than the competition, which is true with most cartridges that are the latest and greatest.
 
7 Mag. whizbanger might be a touch better the the 06 and you could say the 300 WIN MAG is better than the 7 Mag, and the 338 WIN mag is better than that and on and on. 30.06 has such a great bullet selection and will kill deer just as dead as the 7 MAG will. If you like using the 7 MAG then knock yourself out, without a doubt its proven itself to be a decent caliber. With a recent surge of new whizbanger calibers, this my caliber is better than yours debate will go on until the end of time. If the shoe fits wear it and wear it with pride.
 
The 7mm Rem Mag was just very well marketed and most people bought it hook, line, and sinker.
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Maybe they bought it hook, line, and sinker because overall, it outperforms the competition.

You say it like Barack says "clings to guns and religion"......as though that were a bad thing.


The truth is while it is a good cartridge it is only marginaly better than the competition, which is true with most cartridges that are the latest and greatest.
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Never mind the fact that the 7mm mag has been one of the "latest and greatest" for over 40 years, pushing 50.

As far as I'm concerned, save the .270's and such for the kid's christmas presents. I'll take a good .300 win mag or 7mm mag any day.

Nothin' wrong with a trusty 30-06 though. Great cartridge.

Some people seem to act as though your life hinges on the decision.

Just get the 7 mag.:)
 
Maybe they bought it hook, line, and sinker because overall, it outperforms the competition.

You say it like Barack says "clings to guns and religion"......as though that were a bad thing.
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Show me where the 7mm Rem Mag significantly out performs the .30-06, .270 or .280? At best the 7mm only averages around 200 ft-lbs of energy at any given range plus only extends the range by 20-30 yards. I have nothing against the 7mm Rem Mag, but like I said it was marketed very well when it came out, how else can you explain its success using a metric caliber in the United States?

To be honest I don't think you can significantly out perform the .30-06 until you step up in caliber to the .338 Win Mag or the .375 H&H. With these to cartridges and 225+ grain bullets you can have roughly the same trajectory as a .30-06 with 180 grain bullets. Plus with the right factory you can have over 500 ft-lbs more energy at 500 yards with these calibers over factory .30-06. The 7mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag can't even do that.

I've owned two 7mm Rem Mags over the years and felt that they never truly lived up to the hype. I found that when I went hunting I was grabbing my .270 more and more as it is a lighter rifle that shoots extremely well for me. So I sold one rifle and re-barreled the other to .375 Ruger just to try it.
 
Show me where the 7mm Rem Mag significantly out performs the .30-06, .270 or .280? At best the 7mm only averages around 200 ft-lbs of energy at any given range plus only extends the range by 20-30 yards.
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You just showed it for me.


I have nothing against the 7mm Rem Mag, but like I said it was marketed very well when it came out, how else can you explain its success using a metric caliber in the United States?
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You can market a product all you like. If the product doesn't back up the marketing hype it will typically fail to be a successful product. Obviously, the 7mm magnum has lived up to the hype surrounding it when it came out. It has become a classic and timeless caliber.
 
Brad, I don't see any problems with the 7mm Maggie. I had one for a while; developed some loads for it. It's just that I couldn't see where inside of 500 yards it would do any more than my '06.

FWIW, my old Sierra book shows a 7mm 140-grain bullet max at 3,100. Mr. Hodgdon says 3,200.

The Federal Premium High-Energy '06 with the Sierra 165-grain HPBT has been chronographed at 3,150 from a 26" barrel. My '06 has a 26" barrel (heavy sucker). :)

So I don't see any practical difference...

Art
 
You can market a product all you like. If the product doesn't back up the marketing hype it will typically fail to be a successful product. Obviously, the 7mm magnum has lived up to the hype surrounding it when it came out. It has become a classic and timeless caliber.
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Totally agree with you, the 7mm Rem Mag is a classic hunting cartridge, but it had to be heavily marketed to be successful. If Remington had quietly brought out the 7mm RM do you think it would be as popular as it is today? At the time it came out Americans had a strong aversion to metric calibers. Plus it is a very capable round and did back itself up with performance. Plus it was competing against the wildly popular .30-06 and .270.

The point I'm trying to make when comparing these cartridges is as Art put it:
So I don't see any practical difference...
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Totally agree with you, the 7mm Rem Mag is a classic hunting cartridge, but it had to be heavily marketed to be successful. If Remington had quietly brought out the 7mm RM do you think it would be as popular as it is today?
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This is the USA, for anything to be successful amongst the general populous, marketing must be well thought out for the most part.

The 7mm mag ain't the "crystal pepsi" of gun cartridges. It's a hit.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's a better all around cartridge. I ain't trying to start a pissing contest over it, the point is a properly hand loaded 7mm magnum will run right by the other two cartridges. Maybe the difference ain't huge, but there is still a difference.

I think whether dude chooses the 06 or the 7 mag he will have a great rifle. My point is that if he were bringing me along shopping there would be no way in hell I'd let him leave the store without making sure he had grabbed the 7mm mag.:D
 
The point I'm trying to make is that it's a better all around cartridge. I ain't trying to start a pissing contest over it, the point is a properly hand loaded 7mm magnum will run right by the other two cartridges. Maybe the difference ain't huge, but there is still a difference.
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While I agree it is a good choice to consider when looking for a new rifle, especially if animals like elk are on the menu. But the 7mm Rem Mag isn't what I would consider a better all around rifle, I would say that it is in the same class range as the .270, .280, and .30-06. Plus I'm saying you will not notice a huhe difference in how each one of these shoot.

By 300 yards without holdover you will not put a bullet in the kill zone on any of thes rifle. By 500 yards you had better know your BDC reticle or Target Turrets very well on your scope if you expect to make a killing shot with any of these cartridges. The thing is when looking for that new rifle for hunting the work "Magnum" takes on mythical proportions in the hunters mind, especially if they don't get to chase animals like elk on a regular basis.

The word "Elk" seems to conjure up imagaes of a very large animal that is hard to kill for most hunters. Granted I haven't killed a whole lot of elk but it has all been done with the .270 and .30-06, and I've seen elk killed with the 7mm Rem Mag and there wasn't any visable difference in the way these calibers killed.
 
Taylor,

For what its worth, and I love the 270. My buddy years ago shot a pretty big buck that was on a run with his 270 that gave him broadside shots at about 150yds. He managed to hit it 3 times out of 5 shots which is pretty good shooting actually. None of the bullets went completely through the deer. He was using 130gr Win factory loads. Not really what I would call the kind of performance from a deer rifle that I would want. I used 150gr Federal Premium Nosler partition loads on the 270 of mine. They always went through both sides of the deer. I don't want my bullets to go in and stay in the far side of the deer. I want a entry hole and a exit hole. That's another reason I'm not a big fan of the 243.
 
For what its worth, and I love the 270. My buddy years ago shot a pretty big buck that was on a run with his 270 that gave him broadside shots at about 150yds. He managed to hit it 3 times out of 5 shots which is pretty good shooting actually. None of the bullets went completely through the deer. He was using 130gr Win factory loads. Not really what I would call the kind of performance from a deer rifle that I would want. I used 150gr Federal Premium Nosler partition loads on the 270 of mine. They always went through both sides of the deer. I don't want my bullets to go in and stay in the far side of the deer. I want a entry hole and a exit hole. That's another reason I'm not a big fan of the 243.
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Brad, don't know how to explain that one and I will not try. Stuff happens and it could have easily happened with a 7mm Rem Mag or .30-06. All I know is I've never had a failure in any caliber on deer including the .243 as long as I made the proper shot placement. I've never had a 130 grain .277 caliber bullet fail to penetrate through deer either and at ranges that I probably shouldn't have been shooting.

My last deer I took with a center fire was beyond 500 yards and it was with the .270 using 130 grain Sierra SPBT complete pass through broad side. Last elk was 250 yards with 150 grain Nosler Partition in my .270 again complete pass through broad side. Last bear was a 200 grain Nosler Partition .30-06, complete pass through both shoulders. I'm sure I could have made all of these shots just as easily with the 7mm Rem Mag, but I didn't need one to make these shots either nor would it have made any difference in the end results.
 
next rifle

Ok I have 7mm Mag, .308, .243 and a 7x57.

Tomorrow I might buy a 30.06. Now I want to know whether I should go ahead and buy a 30.06 or should I consider 270?

I guess the crux of this question is which of the two will be add more varsatility to my rifle collection?
 
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