6.5 Creedmoor.......Love affair???
- Thread starter Whistlebritches
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Whistlebritches
New member
"So What"So what?
Yeah, the .308 has more energy, but any of the various 6.5CM/.260Rem/6.5X55 still have plenty of energy at any ethical hunting range. Here is a chart from Federal Ammo, comparing two Nosler Accubond factory loads, plus the .30-30 thrown in for a comparison.
The .30-30 has probably taken more deer than any other cartridge, and it has less energy at 100 yards than the 6.5 CM does at at 400.
The .308 has a whopping 140 Ft Lbs more energy at 400 yards than the 6.5CM, and the .264 bullet has higher sectional density, so will have better penetration. A hit in the vitals with either will be fatal. If you make a bad hit, that extra 140 ft-lbs isn't going to help you.
The 6.5 Swede has been taking moose in Scandinavia for over 100 years, it is plenty for deer at any ethical range, and the 6.5 CM is ~75 FPS faster in the same bullet weight.
Well, the 6.5X55 predates the .308 by ~60 years, and the 6.5 CM is essentially the 6.5X55 in slightly better packaging.
Like I've said time and again the 308 is a better hunting companion(inside 400 yards or so)than the CM.Your chart proves as much........just like my ballistic table.
Let it be known.......if I ever decide I want to hunt at 600-1000 yards I'll give old Creedmoor a call.Til then.........
CalmerThanYou
New member
I think it is abundantly clear. The 308 and you are a great pair, embrace the love, don't fight it.
I knew exactly what you meant. The point is that aside from packaging, the 6.5 CM is not really a reinvention of anything. It is ballistically pretty close to the the 6.5X55 Swede from ~125 years ago, only about 75-100 fps faster at most weights.Tallest said:
That whoosh was the point going over your head.Whistlebritches said:
So what exactly do you think that extra 140 ft-lbs is going to do for you?
You like your .308, we get it. The reality is that for hunting, at ethical ranges, the difference is trivial. A good hit is a dead animal. A marginal hit that extra 140 ft-lbs is meaningless.
Following your logic, a .338 RUM is a better deer round than your .308, because it has as much energy at 300Y as your rifle does at the muzzle. After all, in your world energy is all that matters, and more energy is better.
People have been killing game animals for a very long time with rifles with a lot less energy than the .308. Once you pass a certain point, all that extra energy is just more recoil and noise. (This is where you tell us what a he-man you are and call people who think more recoil without added benefit is dumb are some sort of girly men).
Don Fischer
New member
I knew exactly what you meant. The point is that aside from packaging, the 6.5 CM is not really a reinvention of anything. It is ballistically pretty close to the the 6.5X55 Swede from ~125 years ago, only about 75-100 fps faster at most weights.
That whoosh was the point going over your head.
So what exactly do you think that extra 140 ft-lbs is going to do for you?
You like your .308, we get it. The reality is that for hunting, at ethical ranges, the difference is trivial. A good hit is a dead animal. A marginal hit that extra 140 ft-lbs is meaningless.
Following your logic, a .338 RUM is a better deer round than your .308, because it has as much energy at 300Y as your rifle does at the muzzle. After all, in your world energy is all that matters, and more energy is better.
People have been killing game animals for a very long time with rifles with a lot less energy than the .308. Once you pass a certain point, all that extra energy is just more recoil and noise. (This is where you tell us what a he-man you are and call people who think more recoil without added benefit is dumb are some sort of girly men).
For hunting at ethical ranges, there's a lot of cartridge's that will do as good as the Creedmoor. This making the Creedmoor the wonder cartridge of long range is bogus.
stagpanther
New member
I vote it's time to disconnect life-support from this thread.
Absolutely.Don Fischer said:
Huh? What does one have to do with the other?
Like I said before, there are certainly better cartridges for any specific application, but the 6.5 CM (and .260Rem and even 6.5 Swede for the most part) offer excellent LR target ballistics, plus the capability to kill any game animal in North America (short of the big bears) at any ethical hunting range, all in a compact rifle with a relatively mild recoil and a decent barrel life. A deer or elk hit with a .270 or .308 in the vitals won't be any more dead than if they were hit with a 6.5CM.
It isn't magic, it is just a really good sweet spot of bore size, BC, SD, and packaging (which again, the Swedes have known about since 1894) combined with good marketing so hunters and shooters are now aware of it.
Whistlebritches
New member
I'm gonna sit back and wait for the next darling to come along..........and continue to hunt with my superior 308.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzjei7Hcip8
Later Fellers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzjei7Hcip8
Later Fellers
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stagpanther
New member
I for one am thankful you took four pages of posts to answer your own question.
Translated, I have no actual argument to support my view, so I will pretend I won the discussion and sulk away.
The funny thing, I don't even own a 6.5 Creedmoor. My hunting rifle is a .308. My LR Rig is a 6.5-06. I have a couple other 6.5s, a Swede, an Arisaka and a Carcano, but no CM.
Whistlebritches
New member
I wanted to know why the love affair.I understand passion for a weapon and to some degree a cartridge.I'm an old school military guy that went thru many weapon changes in Navy Special Warfare,not all of them good.I for one am thankful you took four pages of posts to answer your own question.
I really was hoping one of the CM fans would look at the ballistic tables and say.......Oh I get where you're coming form.Well that didn't happen so I posted them.I just posted a video of further proof.It would seem facts mean little to CM junkies.Oh darn......I forgot to say hunting inside 400 yards.Do I get a penalty for that?
Whistlebritches
New member
See ballistic tables and video cannot change some minds.All the evidence to support that the 308 is superior at big game hunting out to 400 yards to the beloved CM is there.I rest my case.Translated, I have no actual argument to support my view, so I will pretend I won the discussion and sulk away.
The funny thing, I don't even own a 6.5 Creedmoor. My hunting rifle is a .308. My LR Rig is a 6.5-06. I have a couple other 6.5s, a Swede, an Arisaka and a Carcano, but no CM.
If I were arguing the 308 was superior to the CM in 1000 yard competition I could see your argument.But flat denial of the obvious posted in black and white as well as video?
Side by side comparison, using Federal ammo, using your example of Nosler Accubond bullets, the 140 gr 6.5CM shoots a little flatter and has less wind drift than the .308 165g at every range. Not a huge difference, but better in both areas. It has marginally less energy, but still plenty for any game in North America, and it is more pleasant to shoot.
I would think you would look at the ballistic tables and say.......Oh I get where you're coming from.
OK, just saw your edit and the video. Yeah, at 100 yards, the .308 did more damage to the jello, unsurprising, since at 100 yards it has a lot more energy.
I bet the .338 RUM would do even more damage.
The point I am trying to make is that you don't really NEED that extra energy. The damage from the 6.5 in that video was still substantial, with excellent penetration, and would be fatal to any game animal with a hit to the vitals.
I bet the .338 RUM would do even more damage.
The point I am trying to make is that you don't really NEED that extra energy. The damage from the 6.5 in that video was still substantial, with excellent penetration, and would be fatal to any game animal with a hit to the vitals.
Whistlebritches
New member
I see what you're saying.The chart shows nothing substantial in range or wind drift.It also excludes the very thing that makes the difference .........ENERGY.
Yes the CM showed substantial damage with excellent penetration.The 308 was superior in each category......IS THAT SO DAMN HARD TO SAY.
I have no idea what a 338 Rum is.......I'm a bourbon guy myself.
stagpanther
New member
Hornady's own creedmoor-killer.
I didn't post the energy table, because I already had, those are the same two loads in the chart I posted in post 79.Whistlebritches said:
At 100 yards, according to Federal, the .308 has 2313 ft-lbs, the 6.5 CM has 2020, so 14.5% more for the .308. Because the 6.5 has a higher BC and retains its velocity better, the delta gets smaller the farther you go. At 200 yards is is down to ~13%, and 300 yards it is down to 12%.
So yes, the .308 has more energy, but not enough to matter. A hit in the vitals will be fatal with either, a poor hit that ~14% isn't going to make any significant difference.
What do you mean by "Each Category"? I said it had more energy, I have acknowledged that all along. I also said it did more damage to the jello, and therefor ruined more meat. Penetration looked to be pretty similar in that video, but in any event it is more than enough for even elk for both.Whistlebritches said:
If by each category you mean wind and drop, it is simply not true. It isn't much worse than a 6.5, but it is worse, so "superior" is not an accurate statement.
.338 RUMWhistlebritches said:
I wonder what that extra 10% velocity is going to do to barrel life. My 6.5-06 it is not great.Dranrab said:
I don't know... I've developed a morbid fascination with the rigor mortis level grasp on a disproven perspectiveI vote it's time to disconnect life-support from this thread.
Don Fischer
New member
It seem's to me that people are exploiting the long range part of the Creedmoore. They really don't have much to say bout it as a hunting cartridge. I have read a number of time how the CM is superior to the 260 Rem for long range shooting because you can seat the bullet a bit deeper? Every time I read that I have to smile! This is just foreign to me that seating the bullet a bit deeper is going to ruin the accuracy! I think that all the 6.5 CM really does is provide a subject to talk about. I think the biggest advantage to the CM over the 260 Rem is the name of the cartridge. What might happen if it was called the 260 Ruger? Just doesn't turn me on! Myself I'm not sure witch version I'd get, wht one can do so can the other! I'd be willing to bet that if you had 50 rifle's at a long range match, half 260's and half CM's Neither would own the top 50 spot's. And I wouldn't bet a CM would win it. Of course I wouldn't bet on the 260 either. My though is that the best long range shooter is gonna win no matter which cartridge he's using.
Actually I would not give up my 6.5x55 for either of them. Only thing I would gain is easier to find reloadable case's for those two. I'm really thinking about a new rifle in one of them to play with, just can't make up my mind on which one. I've shot my 6.5x06 to 500yds at targets a few time's and get better than MOA with it but that is with 140gr SMK's. Good hunting bullet's get me better thn MOA at 300yds just not as tight as the SMK's.
If someone asked me to recommend one over the other, I coul not do it!