dagger dog
New member
reloader28,
Ya got to remember ol' Rooster only got one eye,so we'll call it even.
Ya got to remember ol' Rooster only got one eye,so we'll call it even.
45 Colt versus 44 Magnum
- Thread starter tomrkba
- Start date
Bill Akins
New member
This is a long running and can never be definitively ascertained controversy. And I don't mean in this thread but generally.
I like them both.
Not going into handloads or wildcat loads, but just speaking generally with factory loads, one gets its knockdown power from velocity and one gets its knockdown power from inertia of heavier mass.
You won't hear any complaints or opinions one way or the other from whatever you shoot either one with.
.
I like them both.
Not going into handloads or wildcat loads, but just speaking generally with factory loads, one gets its knockdown power from velocity and one gets its knockdown power from inertia of heavier mass.
You won't hear any complaints or opinions one way or the other from whatever you shoot either one with.
.
Again this has been a great thread. As much as I favor .452 I know .429 is an extremely capable round. Let me leave you with a few paragraphs from Linebaughs website. Taken from http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm
In John's own words...
The loads listed in the accompanying tables are safe in ALL RUGER single action revolvers. The .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk is approximately 85% as strong as the Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44Magnum caliber. Industry specs on the .44 Magnum is 40,000 psi maximum, NOT TO EXCEED 43, 500 ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM. The industry will stand behind their guns to this MAXIMUM pressure in factory loads. ( Most companies will not honor warranties if handloads are used.)
Lets give them the benefit of the doubt and hold our loads to 85% of the 40,000 level they prefer. This still allows us to use up to 34,000 class loads which is a safe working pressure in the Ruger .45 Colt. It is as safe as the .44 Magnums 40,000 psi Maximum recommended level. I have shot hundreds of proof-type loads in the Rugers in .45 caliber, even going as far as purposely destroying some cylinders with overloads. We know just how strong they are. They will take 34,000 psi for two lifetimes with little care. At this pressure level you are working with about a 100% safety factor. Sure, they will stand a little more, but I don't really care. A .45 Colt with honest 30,000/34,000 psi loads "in the gun" have about a 35% advantage over the best .44 Magnum loaded accordingly.
I want to make it clear here: This is not an "Anti-44 Magnum / Pro-45 Colt" article. I have simply tried to clear up some myths and rumors and set the ballistic record straight in this small area. If I could have had some .41 Magnum pressure data on hand it would have compared accordingly to the .44 Magnum just as the .44 compares to the .45 Colt. The load data used in this article has been used by myself for several years, and recommended to dozens of other shooters across this nation for a couple years now. All report good results and fine accuracy. If I show a prejudice toward the .45 Colt it is deserved and well-founded. I happen to like all sixgun cartridges above .40 caliber. I just like the .45 Colt the best.
In John's own words...
The loads listed in the accompanying tables are safe in ALL RUGER single action revolvers. The .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk is approximately 85% as strong as the Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44Magnum caliber. Industry specs on the .44 Magnum is 40,000 psi maximum, NOT TO EXCEED 43, 500 ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM. The industry will stand behind their guns to this MAXIMUM pressure in factory loads. ( Most companies will not honor warranties if handloads are used.)
Lets give them the benefit of the doubt and hold our loads to 85% of the 40,000 level they prefer. This still allows us to use up to 34,000 class loads which is a safe working pressure in the Ruger .45 Colt. It is as safe as the .44 Magnums 40,000 psi Maximum recommended level. I have shot hundreds of proof-type loads in the Rugers in .45 caliber, even going as far as purposely destroying some cylinders with overloads. We know just how strong they are. They will take 34,000 psi for two lifetimes with little care. At this pressure level you are working with about a 100% safety factor. Sure, they will stand a little more, but I don't really care. A .45 Colt with honest 30,000/34,000 psi loads "in the gun" have about a 35% advantage over the best .44 Magnum loaded accordingly.
I want to make it clear here: This is not an "Anti-44 Magnum / Pro-45 Colt" article. I have simply tried to clear up some myths and rumors and set the ballistic record straight in this small area. If I could have had some .41 Magnum pressure data on hand it would have compared accordingly to the .44 Magnum just as the .44 compares to the .45 Colt. The load data used in this article has been used by myself for several years, and recommended to dozens of other shooters across this nation for a couple years now. All report good results and fine accuracy. If I show a prejudice toward the .45 Colt it is deserved and well-founded. I happen to like all sixgun cartridges above .40 caliber. I just like the .45 Colt the best.
black mamba
New member
I'm still waiting for Ruger to bring out the Redhawk (not SRH) they should have all along:
5" barrel with half-length ejector shroud in SS with 5-shot cylinder in 480 Ruger.
This would shade the 45 Colt in the same way the 45 does the 44 magnum, and would be in a packable double action. PLEEEEASE!!
5" barrel with half-length ejector shroud in SS with 5-shot cylinder in 480 Ruger.
This would shade the 45 Colt in the same way the 45 does the 44 magnum, and would be in a packable double action. PLEEEEASE!!
Flyboy_451
New member
While I would not throw stones at that setup, I would prefer it in the Blackhawk platform. I bought a second hand BFR in .475 and cut the barrel to 5 1/4" to arrive at the package I wanted. It has been a fine gun (better than all of my Rugers in stock form), but it is larger by a noticeable amount. I would rather have something a little lighter weight. I think a Blackhawk fitted with a Hunter grip frame, 4 5/8" to 5 1/2" barrel would be about ideal.
As a matter of fact, I am anxiously awaiting the return of a Vaquero that I sent to Dustin Linebaugh last year for that exact conversion in .500 Linebaugh. With moderate loads, I think it will make an outstanding general use big bore.
JW
Lost Sheep
New member
I read an article in the '70s that described one such experiment. While I don't have the article and cannot remember which publication carried it, I remember the paragraph almost word-for-word.fourdogs said:
Yep. Dick Casull built some fine, strong guns.
Whether the writer of the article was engaging in hyperbole, I don't know, but he was one of those guys who had been doing gun reviews on staff for a long time.
Lost Sheep
Lost Sheep
New member
Been done a couple of timesstellite said:
http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/112985-Another-454-Redhawk-is-born!
http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/94598
http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/97351
and a couple of pictures from Snyd on AlaskaOutdoors (ourdoorsdirectory.com)
http://web.mac.com/perryschneider/pics/454s_01.jpg
http://web.mac.com/perryschneider/pics/454Snyd_02.jpg
http://web.mac.com/perryschneider/pics/422RH_01.jpg
Lost Sheep
Crankgrinder
New member
i do not own either one and i havent read all the posts this is an awfuly long thread, but is it possible that the 44mag will hold up to the loads it was designed for much longer than the 45 will stand up to the loads that they say it was not designed for?
No it won't.
I know this article has been linked a couple times already but reading it really should be a prerequisite to posting in a 44 vs 45 thread lol.
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm
Ole 5 hole group
New member
I read through this whole thread and thought I’d just add a couple comments. 1st off, good ole Elmer Keith crowned the 44 Magnum the King of handgun large bores back in the day. Then along came John Linebaugh who abruptly removed that crown and placed it squarely on the 45 Colt where it still resides when comparing the 44 Magnum with the 45 Colt.
I agree with some here that ole Elmer would have developed the 45 Colt had he access to good cases and revolver back in the day. I’ll post a picture showing what the balloon head looks like compared to a modern day 45 Colt.
Linebaugh went with a 5-shot cylinder and that can be loaded to 60K+ psi if one has the desire. You can also go to the 5-shot 44 Magnum if you have a desire and push that puppy to your heart’s content but you can’t quite catch the 45 Colt. You see, close doesn’t count here, maybe if we were talking about artillery rounds it might – but the 45 Colt is currently the King and it can run right on the heels of the 454 loaded to insane pressures.
I’ll also post a few pictures of the various cylinders some people like to talk about and you’ll notice there is a little difference and bigger is always better for Killing, all else being equal.
Those of you that have light weight 44 magnums and have shot +P loads – you have somewhat of an idea what it feels like to light off the 5-Shot cylinder 45 Colt loaded to 60K psi. Not your average plinking load.
If the 44 magnum is a little light for your needs, you could go to the 45 Colt but the better choice would probably be the 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh. If that doesn’t quite cut it then there’s a few 500’s out there that might. As for the 500’s – most have the 0.500 bore while the Linebaugh’s have a 0.510 bore. They will all get your attention if you load them full-on for maximum felt pain but the 500 Alaskan will probably take the honors in that respect.
I agree with some here that ole Elmer would have developed the 45 Colt had he access to good cases and revolver back in the day. I’ll post a picture showing what the balloon head looks like compared to a modern day 45 Colt.
Linebaugh went with a 5-shot cylinder and that can be loaded to 60K+ psi if one has the desire. You can also go to the 5-shot 44 Magnum if you have a desire and push that puppy to your heart’s content but you can’t quite catch the 45 Colt. You see, close doesn’t count here, maybe if we were talking about artillery rounds it might – but the 45 Colt is currently the King and it can run right on the heels of the 454 loaded to insane pressures.
I’ll also post a few pictures of the various cylinders some people like to talk about and you’ll notice there is a little difference and bigger is always better for Killing, all else being equal.
Those of you that have light weight 44 magnums and have shot +P loads – you have somewhat of an idea what it feels like to light off the 5-Shot cylinder 45 Colt loaded to 60K psi. Not your average plinking load.
If the 44 magnum is a little light for your needs, you could go to the 45 Colt but the better choice would probably be the 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh. If that doesn’t quite cut it then there’s a few 500’s out there that might. As for the 500’s – most have the 0.500 bore while the Linebaugh’s have a 0.510 bore. They will all get your attention if you load them full-on for maximum felt pain but the 500 Alaskan will probably take the honors in that respect.
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BusGunner007
New member
Excellent thread.
I'm happy with the .44 for as much as I'll ever need or use it.
I'm happy with the .44 for as much as I'll ever need or use it.
Biff Tannen
New member
45 colt vs 44 mag: Hand load vs factory load
I love these debates... Learn something new every time, it never gets old...
From what I gather (and please chime in if you disagree), in general, the rule of thumb is:
- IF YOU'RE A HAND LOAD GUY, 45 COLT
- IF YOU'RE A FACTORY LOAD GUY, 44 MAG
I love these debates... Learn something new every time, it never gets old...
From what I gather (and please chime in if you disagree), in general, the rule of thumb is:
- IF YOU'RE A HAND LOAD GUY, 45 COLT
- IF YOU'RE A FACTORY LOAD GUY, 44 MAG
seeker_two
New member
But, with companies like Buffalo Bore, the heavy-load .45Colt isn't just a handloader option anymore.....
^ True, but companies like BB etc offer such a limited choice that I think what Biff said is true. Because the two rounds are considered so close, if you don't handload the 44 is generally a better choice if you want a rather large choice of ammo. Of course you can handload the 44 which I've done a lot to give even more versatility.
As everyone know's most of what's available on the shelves in 45 is pretty anemic for obvious reasons. There are hot loads you can find in 45 Colt which pretty much equal the hot loads you can find in 44, but if you handload both calibers like I have .452 for me offered more versatility and more terminal performance in a strong five shot gun like my 454 FA. That's why I sold my 44. Just couldn't justify having more than one handgun in todays economic climate. My do all including carry gun will remain my 454. I normally shoot the Colt cylinder and I can tell you there is very little difference between 45 Colt and 454 with good handloads in a strong gun.
Really good thread here with a bunch of great guys posting.
As everyone know's most of what's available on the shelves in 45 is pretty anemic for obvious reasons. There are hot loads you can find in 45 Colt which pretty much equal the hot loads you can find in 44, but if you handload both calibers like I have .452 for me offered more versatility and more terminal performance in a strong five shot gun like my 454 FA. That's why I sold my 44. Just couldn't justify having more than one handgun in todays economic climate. My do all including carry gun will remain my 454. I normally shoot the Colt cylinder and I can tell you there is very little difference between 45 Colt and 454 with good handloads in a strong gun.
Really good thread here with a bunch of great guys posting.
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It is unfortunate that the 45lc just does not have the variety of guns available that the 44 mag does. Neither does the 454.
As for handloading, I think there is enough info referenced in this thread that either will get the job done. Factory loads, the 45lc has quite a few, but not anywhere close to what you can get for the 44 mag or even the 454.
In order to match the hottest factory 44 magnum loadings in the 45lc you have to handload since the 44 mag factory loadings go much higher in power than the 45lc factory loads. Does it really matter? Probably not. If I feel that I can't get it done with 1300-1500 ft-lbs in either caliber then I will go with something much bigger like a 460 or 500. Maybe Ruger will start making the 45lc Redhawk in all barrel configurations again, that would go a long way to gaining in popularity.
As for handloading, I think there is enough info referenced in this thread that either will get the job done. Factory loads, the 45lc has quite a few, but not anywhere close to what you can get for the 44 mag or even the 454.
In order to match the hottest factory 44 magnum loadings in the 45lc you have to handload since the 44 mag factory loadings go much higher in power than the 45lc factory loads. Does it really matter? Probably not. If I feel that I can't get it done with 1300-1500 ft-lbs in either caliber then I will go with something much bigger like a 460 or 500. Maybe Ruger will start making the 45lc Redhawk in all barrel configurations again, that would go a long way to gaining in popularity.