45 Colt versus 44 Magnum

Why insist on a factory load?

I do agree that in factory loadings, the .44 edges out the .45, but I thought the original question posed was which is more powerful...

Limiting it to factory loads is not a way of accurately determining which is the more capable cartridge. I think a much better comparison is much like the one Mr. Linebaugh did in which the loads were only restricted to the pressure that produced equal safety margins for the guns they were to be fired in. Now we are comparing the capabilities of the cartridge, not some arbitrary limitation imposed by anything (or anyone) other than physics. The .45 is at a disadvantage here because the larger diameter limits the strength of the gun, but this increase in diameter increases the work potential of the pressure generated. Mr. Linebaugh demonstrated that the increase in work potential due to diameter, outweighs the pressure difference, and thus, the .45 will outperform the .44.

By using factory loads by such companies as Buffalo Bore, you can indeed increase the performance of the .44, but this is the result of increasing pressure, likely beyond the 100% safety margin that Linebaugh allowed. If we were to increase the .45 to the same degree beyond that 100% safety margin, you would see the same result as when were held to a 100% margin. As I said in another post, it is not reasonable or scientifically honest to increase the pressure of one, without doing the same with the other. This would be like comparing loads for five shot .45s to loads for six shot .44s. it is not an apples to apples comparison.

Having said all that, I do agree with you that the availability of heavily loaded .44 gives it an advantage to some shooters. It has also been my experience that for the vast majority of applications for which a handgun is suitable, either one is a good choice. but, no matter how ya slice it and dice it, the .45 edges out the .44 when loaded to the same safety margins for a given firearm capable of handling heavy loads.

Given the choice, I think it is safer to increase diameter rather than pressure. I also find it more pleasant to shoot. YMMV

JW
 
wrong flyboy, no manufacturer is going beyond safety limits, the liability is to great and again, no proof of 45lc having more power. Not one iota of proof. Just lots of talk. As it stands if we go by the numbers then 44 magnum wins in power...1649 ft-lbs :D Show me numbers instead of paragraphs of talk.
 
As it stands if we go by the numbers then 44 magnum wins in power...1649 ft-lbs Show me numbers instead of paragraphs of talk.
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From the link in post 17
About 8 years ago I had just finished a .45 Colt on an old Abilene frame. Barrel length was 7 1/2 inches and the 6-shot cylinder was oversize in diameter and full frame length. Our load was 30 grains of Hercules 2400 and 225 gr. Speer JHP. Our goal was 2000 fps, just like Dick Casull called for in the .454. Velocity was in the range of 1700 fps so more powder was needed. We ended up shooting 36 grains of 2400 and our top velocity was 1960 fps.
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thats a 225gr bullet at 1960fps from a 45 colt case 1919ft-lbs.:D:D:D

And just for the record the Buffalo Bore +P+ 44mag is over SAAMI pressure and length;)
It all matters where you want to draw the line.
SAAMI 44mag wins
factory ammo still 44mag
what you can wring out of the cases in custom 5 shot gun with a knowledgable reloader 45 colt will win. Just as I said 2 pages ago.
 
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^ That's true, but the same thing can be said about the 44. I like the 44. I shot factory. I shot over SAMMI. I hand loaded. I could really crank up the power if I wanted but I paid a price in terms of increased muzzle blast and recoil. High end 44 loads are simply brutal. I don't think anyone will deny that.

I only hand load for my 45 ( FA 454 w/ colt cylinder ) Not much ammo to be found in stores that aren't low end except Corbin/ BB etc. Since I've extensively loaded the 44 and 45 caliber I can tell you this. If you have a strong gun the 45 will do more work and it's more flexible with respect to bullets. I'm guessing you can go as low as 185 gr although I never have. I know you can go as high as 400gr because that's what I normally shoot. I doubt the 44 can achieve that spread even in their own perspective weights.

Really though arguing pounds of energy is academic because few of us will ever shoot to that degree or want to. What racer said is true. What you can wring out of the cases in custom 5 shot gun with a knowledgable reloader 45 colt will win....and I say win every time. In the end they're both great calibers. You can't go wrong with either. Like most things in life it's simply personal preference.
 
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DaggerDog, thats not really a fair comparison. Rooster vs Dirty Harry.
Dirty Harry shot 44spl loads. He didnt shoot magnums.:p
 
thats a 225gr bullet at 1960fps from a 45 colt case 1919ft-lbs.

And just for the record the Buffalo Bore +P+ 44mag is over SAAMI pressure and length
It all matters where you want to draw the line.
SAAMI 44mag wins
factory ammo still 44mag
what you can wring out of the cases in custom 5 shot gun with a knowledgable reloader 45 colt will win. Just as I said 2 pages ago.
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Well that load certainly blows away the highest loads I have seen for the 44 mag (250gr/20.5gr/N110/1750fps/1700ft-lbs). In fact it blows away most if not all the factory 454 casull loads as well. Which is interesting in of itself.;)

As for 44 mag pressure, the new rating of 36ksi is actually a downrating. The original rating was 43.5k CUP and in the redhawk these pressures are no problem. In fact they are no problem in the blackhawk either. These pressures, however, are way too much for the SW guns.

you can lead a 45colt to a river but you definitely can't make him drink the 44mag water:D

This has been an excellent discussion.
 
As for 44 mag pressure, the new rating of 36ksi is actually a downrating. The original rating was 43.5k CUP and in the redhawk these pressures are no problem.
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32k psi is no problem in a 45 Colt redhawk or Blackhawk.
So as I've already said twice now Commercial loads in Rugers 44 mag wins albut by a small margin.
For the record I like water 44 mag or 45 Colt makes no difference to me.
I personally load my 45 Colts to SAA safe levels only and my 44 mags stay in the "won't blow up a Smith" range (although I don't shoot my heavy loads in my 29-2) and if I want more I go bigger 475/480:D.
 
I am sure you can go much higher in the 45colt in a BH or RH. Probably pretty close to 44 mag levels, although the 44 mag has more meat by design. I have definitely learned a lot about the 45lc. I just wish there were more guns available for it, like the 5.5 inch RH, which they use to make in that caliber.
 
Since energy numbers without regard to pressures seem to be what you are focusing on, here are some more loads from linebaughs's site that exceed the BB.44 +P+ load.


In our big 45 Conversion we install a new barrel, a steel ejector rod housing with checkered ejector rod button, and an oversize 5 or 6 shot cylinder. These are done on Ruger frames only and we suggest the Bisley model for its superior grip and recoil control either in the Blackhawk model with adjustable sights or the Vaquero Bisley. With a 5 shot cylinder and a 7 1/2' barrel you can expect the following velocities (A 6 shot delivers approx. 100 fps less velocity than a 5 shot):

Available in Stainless Steel

240-260 gr. JHP. 1700 fps
Energy=1668

260 gr. cast. 1750 fps
Energy=1767

310/320 gr. cast 1600 fps
Energy=1818

340 gr. cast 1500 fps
Energy=1698

370 gr. cast. 1400 fps
Energy=1610


All but two of these loads exceed the numbers reached by the BB load. If you have not yet been to Mr. linebaughs web site, I highly recommend that you do. There are various articles that he has written that anyone with an interest in revolvers really should read. Other information regarding the ballistic performance of various cartridges can be found under the "Guns" heading.

Nobody here is trying to rain on your parade. We all agree that the .44 Mag is a fine cartridge with performance to spare for most applications. Every physical trait that makes the .44 shine, bullet weight and diameter, case capacity, velocity, etc., also makes the .45 a great performer. The .45 simply has more of all of these traits to use to it's advantage. Realisticly they are very close, so much so that it would seldom make a difference which one you choose. I own, cast bullets for, load for, shoot, and thoroughly enjoy both. I have taken a lot of game with both, and can easily recommend either for a big bore gun.

JW
 
JW, no issues, I was trying to draw out actual information. That is the info I was looking for. As for raining on the parade, not at all. Again, just wanted factual info on the 45lc. Definitely not performance that far exceeds the 44 mag when reloaded but 100-150 ft-lbs better overall. The 44 mag is definitely the better overall choice for reasons I mentioned above. But I would not feel bad owning a 45lc if I did reloading. If you don't reload and you want a good selection the 44 is definitely the better way to go.
 
If you don't reload and you want a good selection the 44 is definitely the better way to go.
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I disagree, face it we live in the internet age, there are many sources for 45 Colt from mild to wild avaliable. Both are really limited for Sd ammo, there's not really much cheap plinking ammo for either and both sadly lack avaliability of the one load that I enjoy shooting the most, that 240-255 hard cast SWC at 1000 to 1200fps.
My contention would be they both suck if you don't reload:p
 
both sadly lack avaliability of the one load that I enjoy shooting the most, that 240-255 hard cast SWC at 1000 to 1200fps.
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I don't have a .44 Mag, but I have a .45 Colt and a .41 Mag. Appropriately-heavy cast bullets at about 1100 fps is my favorite load too, in both calibers, and I'm not sure you can buy anything in that range.
 
I can't imagine not reloading...

Reloading opens up a lot of flexibility for any cartridge. Just as an example, my favorite plinking load in a .45 Colt is two grains of Bullseye under a 335 grain cast bullet that is seated backwards as deeply as it can be gently pressed in with thumb pressure only. I have no idea how slow this bullet is going, but when fired from my 5 1/2" Bisley, it Penetrates less than a 1/4" into a pine 2X6, is wonderfully pleasant to shoot and is extremely accurate out to about 50 feet.

My heavy load for the same gun is the same bullet driven with 22 grains of H110 cruising along at 1160fps. This load has taken two large elk and countless hogs and deer. I I need more performance, I reach for the 454 or the.475.

JW
 
You don't reload?

They are both equally too expensive to shoot much. Without reloading, I couldn't afford to shoot my centerfires as much as I do. In my opinion, were it not for reloading, both the 44 and the 45, are completely trumped by the 22LR. Imagine going shooting and thinking about the cost of every shot......"I better limit myself to one cylinderful.......well, OK, two,.....but that's it!". And some of these Buffalo Bore and the like loads are upwards of a dollar a shot. Good thing I cast a lot of my own bullets. Last Sunday I shot 110 rounds through my Vaquero. My wife thinks I spend/waste a lot of money shooting. If it weren't for reloading, she'd be right. But back to those hot loads that have been dominating this comparative discussion: How many of y'all actually shoot those +P, Buffalo Bore, hot handload, Ruger-only, white-knuckle, Kodiak bear loads in quantity on a usual basis? I mean like shooting a box of 50 or so rounds at one sitting? After two cylinders of the hot stuff, my hands sting and it's time for something else for me. I like 255 grain bullets running from 840 to 1,100 fps. I have hotter loads than that and though they are safe in my Vaquero, these days, they'll likely go through the Marlin. Yeah, I used to be 24 too.
 
And some of these Buffalo Bore and the like loads are upwards of a dollar a shot.
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check again most are at least a buck and some are closer to $2.
Yeah, I used to be 24 too.
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:D "dad come on these primers are barely even starting to flaten out I think I'll go up another .2 gr" lol
 
I disagree, face it we live in the internet age, there are many sources for 45 Colt from mild to wild avaliable. Both are really limited for Sd ammo, there's not really much cheap plinking ammo for either and both sadly lack avaliability of the one load that I enjoy shooting the most, that 240-255 hard cast SWC at 1000 to 1200fps.
My contention would be they both suck if you don't reload
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neither is ever going to be dirt cheap. However, I can go pretty much buy 44 mag anywhere, Big 5, wallmart, etc and find magnum power 44 magnum. Not so with 45lc. In fact I can get 44 mag for $0.50-0.60 per round fairly easily. you will not find magnum level 45lc for under $1.2 and you will have to order it since it will not be at your local sporting goods store.

as much as I shoot magnum stuff I can live with 50-60 cents a round. And I can also live with the fact that I can buy this cheap 1000 ft-lb ammo at my local store pretty much anywhere.
 
If you shoot enough, or if you want to stockpile buy a mould and learn to cast. It's easy. Then start hand loading. I load heavy and slow for plinking like flyboy except I use a 400 grain over 2.8gr TrailBoss. I'm guessing it's around 500fps . It's stable out quite a ways and extremely accurate. My FA literally goes pop when I shoot one but that round will almost completely penetrate a hard 2x4. When I shoot slow I like a BHN of around 6/8. Sorry you have to click on the attachment. Btw, that a Colt case ( Federal )
 

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as much as I shoot magnum stuff I can live with 50-60 cents a round. And I can also live with the fact that I can buy this cheap 1000 ft-lb ammo at my local store pretty much anywhere.
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I wouldn't call 60 cents a pop cheap when for 75 cents I can fill up a cylinder full and have whatever power level I want.
 
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