44mag shoots high with sights ajusted down ?

At least they have a remedy for your problem. My new EZ 9MM shoots low, sent it back, S&Ws answer TOUGH, you bought it it's yours.
Shooting low isn't a problem, I wish every pistol I bought shot low, then it's just a simple filing of the front sight to get it to POA with the load I would most commonly use. Two modern 1911s I have shot high and required a taller front sight.
 
Filing the rear sight is an option I considered and still might but that will be the last option I try . It almost looks like the rear sight blade is replaceable ?? If so I can get another one and file the crap out of it

LINK....How to change S&W rear sight.

Good video. I would buy an extra blade and try shortening this one.
 
In Ontario Canada, you could obtain a license to carry a pistol, for protection against Wild Animals, (Not sure now?) most specifically Bears.

There were a very small amount of Instructors who had that permission, granted by the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police). I was one of those, from 1981 till 2004. My students were mostly Security Officers and Armoured Car attendants.

And in the USA, Police Officers. As a member of the board of IALEFI. For 20 years.

One of these gentlemen who carried a 6" barreled S&W 44 Mag. A rock Hound went to another Instructor for a while, then came to me.

The shoot portion he had used, was with a .38 Special revolver owned by that instructor? Not permitted to fire a 44 Mag in the range used? Not sure of the story. Anyway, my range was a wartime concrete bunker, you could shoot any small arms there.

He had never fired his 44 Mag. Period. The rear sight was screwed fully down. He saw that it was loose, so he tightened it down! I adjusted it about halfway out (on the advice of a friend who owned that model of a pistol) Taking two factory rounds from the 50 round box presented, both of us double plugged, I
fired both rounds, single action, aimed at the circle of an IPSC target at the full 20 yds. They struck the circle somewhere.
Had my Student aim my minus cylinder or crane equipt revolver at my eye!
He was looking over the sights by 2 inches! Not through them. Corrected that.

Had him shoot two rounds of single-action, then 2 double action. He did OK.
My advice to him, talk to at least a couple of wildlife guides reference advice on hunting Grizzlys/Brown bears, he would not be doing any hunting, but he might fall afoul of one of them. I felt I had earned my $125.00 fee. Canadian.

As always, I can not go without some humour. My third job, on moving to Canada from Australia. Was as a Purchasing Agent. My second in command went by the name of Fred. During our lunch breaks and stuff, it came out that he was a sports pistol shooter, and belonged to a pistol club, an indoor one.

"Don't worry about the equipment, I have all of that, he said" So the next Wednesday night, off we went.
I did not speak on my knowledge, one way or the other.

The range was in the loft of an industrial building, 20 yds, deep, and good air conditioning. He gave me ears, and eyes in the club room, which I donned.
After sending a bullseye target downrange, he loaded 5 rounds of his reloads, and double actioned all 5 rounds in a hurry!
"That would keep their heads down!" He said, when the targets were returned, he had two hits.
New target up, sent down. "Fred, do you mind if I dry fire a few times?"

Suspicious look? "No, he said." This is a one-hand hold bull's eye club.

This 44 mag had a beautiful single action. Most of the rounds were touching, level with the bull, 4" to the left of it. He gave me a very old fashioned look, placed my target in his bag, saved his empties, packed up, and left.

He made no comment, till we were sitting in a Tim Hortons Coffee shop!!

"Why did you not tell me you were Olympic material!" "You never gave me a chance!" I said.

My guns were still in a locked case in the downtown Post Office. You needed all kinds of permits, belong to a gun club, etc! To get them out. On a visit to look at my guns, under supervision, I heard an accent, just like mine, somewhere behind the front counter.

"Hey Scouse, come out to the front counter" Around came a broken nosed individual. ( I might have given it to him in my Bouncing years)

We had a chat, I showed him my receipt. He came back with a Post Office bag.
Put it on the counter "Say newt, tarawell La" I left.
I did not say we, the Family and I were staying with my first cousin Benny.
A metro Police Sgt. Toronto Police! He just about had a heart attack. When with no permission to have, my 3 pistols were in his house.
It was all sorted out in a couple of months. And 50 year later, here I am, in Orlando.
A Yank. Both my wife and I of 28 years.
 
Alright the plan is to go out again on Monday . This time with my chrono and the new rear sight blade installed . As well as some of those 14gr HS-6 loads to sight in and practice with .

I was able to find/buy some Hornady 240gr XTP's and loaded them up with H-110 .

ZjeDQ7.jpg


My process for trim to length is to trim a bit short before sizing . What I do is measure before sizing 10 cases then size and measure again to see how much they grow on avg . I then trim all cases short the same amount they grew on average . In this case that was .007 so my trim to length before sizing is 1.267 I started doing this with 357 cases and it worked well so I also do it with the 44mag cases . This gets me to a +/- .002 of suggested trim to lengths regardless of manufacture .

I bring that up because I seat my bullets right to the top of the cannelure . This results in my COAL being .018 shorter then Hornady's suggestion .

HWCcUy.jpg


Based on my process if I seated to 1.260 per Hornady the bullet sits here in the case .

qCAyvC.jpg


All that said and thinking about it makes me think the manufacturers have already taken that sizing growth into account and I should not be trimming below there suggested trim length . At the same time I think NO you generally trim after sizing so they want the final trim to length after sizing to be there recommended length ?? ( calgone take me away ):rolleyes::D

EDIT: all that said and I never asked the question I started this post for in the first place . What kind of FPS will I be expected to gain or loose per inch of barrel length when testing pistol ? Is it the same as rifle ? I’m shooting a 6” barrel but most data I see is using a 4” or 8” barrel so I need to know what to expext . Hornady says 24.8gr from a 7.5” should be around 1400fps so what would I “expect” to get from a 6” barrel ?
 
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I bring that up because I seat my bullets right to the top of the cannelure . This results in my COAL being .018 shorter then Hornady's suggestion .

First off, you are loading for a revolver. Second, its just their suggestion. As long as the cannelure/crimp groove is in the right place, being a few thousandths short or long from the bullet maker's suggestion is machts nichts.
(assuming it doesn't stick out the front of the cylinder, of course...:rolleyes:)

Generally speaking, revolvers don't care about 0.018" COL difference...a bench rest rifle might, a revolver, not so much...:D

What kind of FPS will I be expected to gain or loose per inch of barrel length when testing pistol ?

there is no reliable number, only general trends. Different powders, and different guns, different barrels, bullets and the fit between all of them makes every gun a unique individual. The only constant is that if you get exactly what the book got, it is serendipity. Your gun will probably be close, but don't expect any kind of exact match.

I've seen 100fps difference shooting the same ammo out of 3 guns with 6" barrels. Usually the spread is much less, but there's always some difference.

Split the difference between the 8 inch and 4 inch data and that is about what a 6inch will give you. About...roughly...assuming your gun isn't exceptionally "fast" or "slow" compared to average. It could very well be either or neither. Also be aware that difference could be different between fast and slow powders as well.

The only way to know exactly what your gun and your ammo are giving you is to test them yourself. Otherwise its just a guess.
 
As mentioned above, velocity is not only barrel length dependent but also gun dependent. With that in mind, here's test I did with 2 3/4" M69, 4 1/4" M69 and a 7 1/2" Ruger Super Redhawk. Same day, same environmental conditions, but different guns/bbl lengths. Results are reasonably representative I suspect. One other thing that I've observed is that loads with heavier for caliber bullets loose less velocity in shorter barrels vs lighter faster ones.

Buffalo Bore, 305 LBT LFN HC rated 1,325 fps
Underwood, 305 LFNGC Plated (HiTech?) rated 1,325 fps
LabRadar muzzle velocity at 33 deg F

S&W M69 2.75" ===> BB 1,195 fps ===> Under 1,147fps
S&W M69 4.25" ===> BB 1,276 fps ===> Under 1,248 fps
Ruger SRH 7.5" ===> BB 1,395 fps ===> Under 1,315 fps


FWIW,

Paul
 
It is my understanding yoiu trim after sizing to get a consistent length, and to ensure the length is below max. Sizing can change the length of the brass, possibly unevenly.

While perhaps getting a bit obsessive for pistol brass, to get more consistency in your crimp and length consider trimming after sizing. Perhaps that is why some consider it standard practice when done to rifle brass?

And because there are always exceptions, revolver brass can actually stretch when used in max load in some rifles.
 
I load all my handgun cartridges on a Lee classic turret press . Brass needs to be to length before you start or I’d need to stop after sizing , trim then finish. The Lee is an auto indexing press kind of like a progressive so trimming after sizing would really slow things down .

I also prime off press before sizing . I have my decapping pins removed from my sizing dies . This allows me to size a primed case . I decap , trim , tumble then prime handgun brass first thing . This allows me to run through all stations on the press without stopping. The press has a on press priming system that I’ve never set up , I may try it out in the future .
 
I too load pistol on the Lee Classic turret, but I size/decap on a single stage then trim just the first time they are fired. After that I do the same as you, size without the decapping pin, prime, powder, seat, and crimp. I only bother trimming.357 and .41, 9mm and .38 I don’t bother. The weird thing in my case is most revolver brass shrinks with multiple firings. I crimp with the Lee collet crimp die, I have found it’s easier on coated/plated bullets and more forgiving of slight variations in length.
 
My 629 Deluxe 3" shot a bit high, rear sight was bottomed out so I ordered a Dawson Precision front fiber optic in a taller height, installed it and all is well.
 
Try lighter bullets. I seem to recall reading that a heavier bullet leaves the barrel slightly later allowing the gun more time to rise with recoil...

Tony
 
FWIW - I hear you all that are recommending lighter bullets ( really ) . I stated earlier I don't want to over stress this firearm because it's an older model with some value . After more research although worth more then a new 629 even in todays prices . It's really not all that valuable .

Why say all that ? I've decided , why have a 44mag if you're not going to get the wow factor out of it . I have a 357 and likely more in the near future that I can load down for light pew pew revolver plinking . For now the the 44 is going to be for BOOM BOOM holy crap that's awesome shooting . Reason being is as stated above if I want to plink a revolver I'll shoot a 357 . I wont be shooting the 44 all that much but when I do I want to know I'm shooting a magnum revolver :-) .

Haha why say all that in the context of bullet weight ? If anything I'll be going up in weight , I'd really like to find some 300gr coated lead bullets to try out . For now I have about 500 each of 240gr lead and plated bullets to work with which should last a little while for now . I don't go through nearly as much ammo when shooting a revolver as I do shooting a auto loader .

I'll be changing that rear sight blade out today which is significantly shorter then the factory blade . Based on the height my guess is the new blade will fix the problem of shooting high .
 
If anything I'll be going up in weight , I'd really like to find some 300gr coated lead bullets to try out .

I've never been a fan of the uber heavy bullets in revolvers. There's no free lunch and increasing the bullet mass some 20% over standard weights IS going to have drawbacks.

You will get increased recoil and increased momentum, that's basic physics. You could get increased energy numbers, but might not be what you expect, due to the reduced velocity of very heavy slugs and velocity squared's role in the energy calculation formula.

Heavier bullets are longer, and your S&W's cylinder is not the longest of available .44 mags. Some bullet designs simply may not fit and still allow acceptable room for powder.

Less room for powder (and SAAMI deciding that the 43,000psi of the 70s now must be 36,000 psi today) means you might be getting less "boom" from 300gr bullet loads than you get from 240/250gr loads.

I'd recommend testing with a small batch before ordering 500 or 1,000, if possible. They might be what you're looking for, but then again, they might not be, so its best to know before you invest in quantities of something you might not be able to use the way you want to.
 
I've found that lighter/heavier bullets can make a big difference in revolvers, not so much in the semi auto. Practically no difference in my 9MM EZ(115/147). Will prolly end up filing the front sight. It'll mess up the dot but you can't hit what you can't see.
 
Something I forgot to mention before, and kind of in line with your situation, wouldn't heavier bullets (such as 300gr) shoot even higher???
 
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