44mag shoots high with sights ajusted down ?
- Thread starter Metal god
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Pathfinder45
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The force of recoil begins at the moment the bullet starts to move out of the case and continues to exert force as the bullet accelerates, until it leaves the muzzle.
I think your 629 is like mine (1983). The front sight blade is just machined as part of the barrel stock (best I can tell).
At any rate, I find your sighting problem to be odd. I have two 629's, and there's lots of elevation adjustability - both ways - on both of them.
I have a 38 snubby (fixed sights) that used to shoot really low. I had a gunsmith grind down the front blade; but he ground it down a bit too much (he followed my instructions). I compensated by putting a dollop of white-out correction fluid on it. It fixed the problem. I don't shoot it much at all. I suppose it won't last forever and will need a re-application. Just something to ponder.
Pathfinder45
New member
Do you want it to look good or shoot well?
If you want both, but you doubt your abilities, take it to a reputable gunsmith and have the front sight built up.
If it's for a hard working trail gun, how pretty does it have to be?
See , now that's even funnier then the last thing you wrote . I'm shooting the gun fine , it groups well just high . That's been one of my points and maybe I should have said that from the get go . I'm not shooting a few high , couple left and some dead on . All "in a group" are printing high . That's one reason I don't "think" it's a flinch but until I do an honest test on flinch I'm not going to say it's not .
As for looking good , NOPE not even a concern . If you saw how I dress you'd know I don't care about that lol . It's about soldering or filing on an old gun that has value . If it was a Torus I'd have my plumbing torch out in a heart beat . Doing things that actual damage original factory parts is not an option . Getting a new rear blade and working on that is a real option while the old blade will go in storage with the original grip , hammer & trigger spring I've switched out . Maybe even a whole rear sight assembly is an option .
I'm with Nick on this , I'm surprised I can't adjust the sight enough to shoot POA . I'm surprised I can't get it to shoot low . FWIW I like 6 o-clock hold so I'm already kinda holding low in the first place .
As for the bullet not being effected by recoil of the gun moving before it exits the barrel .
These slow motion vids seem to show the muzzle rising before the bullet exits .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSlLZeWLy3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3iloqIj-qM
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Pathfinder45
New member
Perhaps it is a problem that is best corrected by the manufacturer. What did Smith and Wesson say?
Filing the front sight down will make the bullet go even higher.
Absolutely not. The minute the bullet starts to move, the recoil begins.
If you have a straight dowel and a yardstick, you can easily demonstrate with a centerfire revolver (that has been properly sighted in) that the bore is pointed noticeably downward when the sights are lined up.
Put the gun on a flat surface with the dowel down the bore. Make sure the dowel either fits the bore pretty closely, or you have it tight against the top or bottom of the bore, not tilted in the bore.
Now set up the yardstick so that it lines up along the top of the sights. You can clearly see that the bore is pointed down with respect to the sights.
A little thought will reveal that unless the muzzle rises during the time the bullet is in the bore, the gun could never hit where the sights are aimed. The bullet would always go well below the point of aim since the bore is angled downward.
Just out of curiosity, how does it shoot at other distances??
Recoil (which is happening as the bullet moves down the barrel) absolutely has an effect on handguns, simply because of where we hold the gun, well below the line of the bore, so the gun is rotating around that point even while the bullet is still in the barrel.
Its also something gun makers take into account.
Recoil (which is happening as the bullet moves down the barrel) absolutely has an effect on handguns, simply because of where we hold the gun, well below the line of the bore, so the gun is rotating around that point even while the bullet is still in the barrel.
Its also something gun makers take into account.
lee n. field
New member
Every .44 I've seen has a front sight that's easily replacable. Get a slightly taller front sight.
Target shot with 4 1/4" M69 rested at 25 yds with REAR SIGHT BOTTOMED OUT and same POA (Large center Diamond) to demonstrate different load's POI. Only shot two rounds to reduce recoil fatigue and eliminate target clutter. S&Ws solution was to provide lower rear sight assembly (bottom picture, on right).
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New rear sight.
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New rear sight.
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This would be my recommendation as well. It's not difficult to replace the rear sight blade although it does require a new windage screw and nut (all sold as a kit). As I recall, S&W shipped .44 Mags with the tallest sight blade (.160"?), and both .146" and .126" - and maybe others - are available. It's simple to calculate how much the change in sight height will affect the POI - dawsonprecision.com shows how.
With regard to the muzzle lifting before the bullet exits, there's no question that it does, with the amount of movement dependent on barrel length and muzzle velocity, among other things. Good discussion of that here: gunsmagazine.com/gear/point-of-aim-vs-point-of-impact/
The recoil contribution is extremely consistent, so if groups grow, it can't be blamed on recoil. However, the difference in where the muzzle starts when the bullet isn't moving and where it ends up at the time the bullet exits can make a pretty significant difference on target.
In a 40oz .357Mag revolver with a 4.2" barrel, a 125gr loading at 1450fps hits about 9" higher on a 25 yard target than it would if the muzzle didn't rise due to recoil while the bullet was in the bore. Change to a 158gr loading at 1240fps and the bullet will hit another 3.25" higher.
So yes, if the groups are big, it's not the gun, it's the shooter, but when it comes to revolvers, the point of impact change due to muzzle rise while the bullet is in the barrel is pretty significant.
The experiment I suggested earlier with the dowel and the yardstick will immediately demonstrate how much the muzzle has to rise before the bullet exits.
Yes and no.
Less recoil lowers the point of impact
More recoil raises the point of impact
Higher velocity, with the same recoil, raises the point of impact
Lower velocity, with the same recoil, lowers the point of impact
Shooter skill and technique will always affect HOW the gun recoils, to a point.
There is some shooter contribution, but as you point out, the bullet is in the bore for a very short time so the main contribution is recoil.
I suspect with a low velocity round, trying to grip the gun very tightly and getting behind it as much as possible vs. holding it loosely could make a noticeable difference on target, but for the most part, it's the recoil that makes the difference.
Assuming that all the loads are shot from the same gun, then muzzle momentum and the time the bullet spends in the barrel are the two things that affect the point of impact.
The same muzzle momentum with longer dwell time will move the shot higher on the target. There's more time for the muzzle to raise even though the momentum/recoil is the same.
The same dwell time with higher muzzle momentum will move the shot higher on the target. The higher momentum/recoil will push the barrel higher during the time the bullet is in the bore.
I suspect with a low velocity round, trying to grip the gun very tightly and getting behind it as much as possible vs. holding it loosely could make a noticeable difference on target, but for the most part, it's the recoil that makes the difference.
Assuming that all the loads are shot from the same gun, then muzzle momentum and the time the bullet spends in the barrel are the two things that affect the point of impact.
The same muzzle momentum with longer dwell time will move the shot higher on the target. There's more time for the muzzle to raise even though the momentum/recoil is the same.
The same dwell time with higher muzzle momentum will move the shot higher on the target. The higher momentum/recoil will push the barrel higher during the time the bullet is in the bore.
To be a bit more clear, its not the recoil its the rotational movement of the gun barrel upward DUE TO recoil, and that can be affected by the shooter's grip on the gun.
While the recoil pulse can be the same the weight of the gun, and shape of the grips, and the shooter's grip on the gun all play a part in how much the barrel rises light bullet or heavy one, its a matter of how much time they spend going down the rising barre, and how much that barrel rises during that time that makes a difference in the POI at close pistol ranges.
While the recoil pulse can be the same the weight of the gun, and shape of the grips, and the shooter's grip on the gun all play a part in how much the barrel rises light bullet or heavy one, its a matter of how much time they spend going down the rising barre, and how much that barrel rises during that time that makes a difference in the POI at close pistol ranges.