444 vs 450 vs 45-70

the 444 is just a bigger 44 mag case you will have better luck with the 45/70.
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I guess that makes the .45-70 just a bigger .45 Colt case. ;)

I was recently choosing between the .450 Marlin, .45-70, and the .444 Marlin myself. I reload, so I wasn't too concerned about availability of ammo on the shelves. I looked at the specs for the different rounds and saw that any of them would do everything I wanted the rifle to do so that was a toss-up.

I wound up buying a Marlin 444 with 24" MG barrel because it had a straight grip Monte Carlo type stock with pretty wood. :)

It has plenty of power for me, and with a Williams peep sight I can put five 265gr Hornady FP bullets through the same ragged hole at 50 yards.

If magazine capacity matters, the Marlin 444 holds 5. The .45-70's and .450's I looked at only carried 4 in the magazine. That wasn't a real concern for me, just something I noticed.
 
Got me wanting a 45-70 with all this talk. Always wanted a big bore lever gun. May have to put that on the list for next year!
 
Yup, 5+1 ammo on hand is serious woods medicine for those critters that might make your day one that you wished you had stayed in bed that day.
 
For hunting in NY state with most shots 50-160 yards get the 444.

Yes, if you reload or buy custom ammo, there's no question you can get more power out of a 45/70. However, the 444 has more than enough for anything in NY. All that extra power is going to get the OP is more recoil.
 
It seems to me, with regard to big predators, that muzzle energy may be important, but isn't nearly as important as reliable penetration. So, while the .444 is nothing to sneeze at, a 335gr bullet typically won't keep up, penetration wise, with a 405gr (or heavier) bullet.
 
Penetration depends more on the shape and deformity of the bullet than on caliber and weight. All things being equal, a higher SD will penetrate further, but in the real world, bullet design (mostly meplat diameter) and bullet hardness make the most difference. There is every chance that a 335 gr .429" bullet could out penetrate a 405 gr .458 bullet at similar velocities.
 
No problem Jack308, I just get bit particular about folks criticizing a great gun. No it is not a 45-70, never said it was, but it will get your attention nevertheless. Truly, a lot of folks like a 30-06 in exclusion to a .300 win mag often due to the lower recoil but with excellent ballistics.

The same is at issue with the .444. It gives me a great large bore platform without taking my shoulder off every time I shoot. It just seems any time someone mentions the .444, it is a critical comment. In any case, if you can handle the recoil of a 45-70, go for it. Myself, I like the .444 a whole lot better. If I want something to thump my shoulder, I shoot my .300 WSM.
 
Today, 01:13 AM #65
MLeake
Senior Member

Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: NW Georgia
Posts: 5,721
It seems to me, with regard to big predators, that muzzle energy may be important, but isn't nearly as important as reliable penetration. So, while the .444 is nothing to sneeze at, a 335gr bullet typically won't keep up, penetration wise, with a 405gr (or heavier) bullet.
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Penetration? Take a look at the penetration of the 335 gr Buffalo Bore against a large grizzly trying to break into a cabin. I would say that through and through is demonstration of enough penetration!!

This grizzly was killed at point blank range in self defense by Mike Leslie of Soldotna, AK. During a dark night the bear attempted to break through the cabin door. They tried to scare it off but the bear persisted in its attempts to enter the cabin. Mike shoved his .444 Marlin through a crack in the door and fired. The next morning the bear was found dead, about 50 feet from the cabin. The 335 gr. hardcast Buffalo Bore load had gone through its chest.
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http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=page_view&p=ammo-reviews5
 
Penetration?

Reviewer: William Wallace
02/15/2010 09:29pm
Tim....

Wanted to let you know that the ammunition worked perfectly. Dropped a trophy Bison in its tracks from approximately 90 yards.

Heart/lungs from 90 yards. Hit him broadside. Big buffalo with a full winter coat. I've attached a picture. Bullet stayed inside the body and was recovered. I've made sure that Buffalo Bore has been represented on several of the boards that I checked in with.....many opinions about a Marlin 444 and its ability to take down a Bison. Bottom line....with the Marlin, Bushnell Banner Scope, and Buffalo Bore 335 grain bullets.....there is no argument in my mind.

A member of our party jammed his rifle and used my Marlin.....killed a deer with the same 335 load from 175 yards. Distance, accuracy, and stopping power.

Thanks!
William W.
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http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=156
 
Alaska444,

Quit talking the .444 Marlin up so much. I may be wanting to buy another one and I'd hate to see the price driven up by demand. :)
 
Today, 05:57 PM #71
Sport45
Senior Member

Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,726
Alaska444,

Quit talking the .444 Marlin up so much. I may be wanting to buy another one and I'd hate to see the price driven up by demand.
__________________
Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.
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+1. LOL. Not too much worry about that, but you are right, for those of us that know how good this much maligned gun is, so be it, I LOVE mine, and if folks want to believe it is a dud, go for it, I wouldn't give mine up for anything.
 
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Not to stir up the masses, but here goes one more time:

Comparing to the hottest of the .45-70 loadings with a 500 grain bullet at 1650 feet per second yields 3020 foot pounds of energy with a recoil force of 47 foot pounds. Although the .45-70 can deliver a heavier bullet the actual energy is about the same. However, the difference in recoil is quite significant and could easily affect follow up shots. Granted a ported .45-70 barrel would minimize this but we're comparing non ported guns for the purpose of this discussion. Our contention is that no game animal is going to be able to tell the difference between a .432 inch bullet completely penetrating it and a .458 inch bullet doing the same thing.

The bottom line is that the .444 Marlin has finally become all it can be and it is a mighty fine and balanced cartridge for the big game hunter or someone looking for bear protection.
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http://www.firearmssite.com/444_marlin.htm
 
I prefer the .444, but mine are out of a Winchester(will handle quite a bit more pressure).
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I'm curious as to where this information (the Winchester action being stronger than, presumably, the Marlin) came from. :confused:
 
While always thought a good round, with the only .444 ammo being the Rem 265gr for decades, the .444 was not superior to the .45-70, and since both were available in basically the same Marlin, the .45-70 I always felt to be the better choice.

This "new" 335gr load appears to have given the .444 something it has badly needed for a long time.
 
And so...

Maybe I missed it.....just went through this thread again......what did the OP finally buy? It's been more than 10 months and the season is upon us.
Pete
 
This has been BEATEN to death! the 45/70 is still the KING OF THE HILL! and some people dont want to execpt that! yeah its slower but the bullet is a true rifle bullet at .459 vs .432.:D
 
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