.44 black powder for defense?

The rigid barrel - frame cylinder alignment of the solid rame Remington contributes to consistent ballistics and excellent accuracy over the Colt design of the era ..

Thus to keep the Colt shooting as well as the Remington it would take some Gunsmithing .
I shoot both types ..and this is my experience ....it is a fact .
 
You do now

No, nor do I know anybody who has.
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You have forgotten about my 1860 Army Pietta .44 that the wedge shot out and the locating pins sheared off the frame with 28gr of 777 ffg on the third shot?
:rolleyes:
 
Which one is "stronger"? Depends on what ya mean by strength...
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If by strength you mean which is the stronger shooter then it's the Colts.
The looser tolerances of the Colts allow them to be fired for a longer period of time without interruption from fouling.

And also if by strength you mean which is the more powerful, then that would also be the Colts since the Walker and the Dragoon have a larger powder capacity.

For sure there's different ways to measure how much strength a gun design really has! ;)
 
One thing for sure , most of us here own both types .
So if you own both and shoot both often useing the same powder charges .
It will not take long to see the difference between the two design .
The Remingtons biggest falt if the early fouling of the cylinder ..Binding
Simple fix takes no more than 30 seconds to remove the cylinder and wipe the pin .
The Colt is prone to eat cap fragments and jam up the works .... (get your tools out )
They will both shoot loose in time with heavy use ....BUT as the Remington shoots loose it only gets better ...less prone to cylinder binding .
as the Colt shoots loose the POA will change ..unless you do a little gunsmithing to tighten things up .
If you haven`t noticed these differences ...you aren`t shooting your revolvers very often .
I shoot one of mine every weekend ....

I also remember when Smokingun broke the pins on his Colt shooting 777 powder ...I`ve shot my Remingtons with the same charge of 777 many times and never had a problem ....but I wouldn`t use it in my Colts .

Go ahead Mykeal post your findings ........we know you are a shooter collector .......your results will be interesting .
 
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Sundance44s, I tend to agree with you in your info, both Colt's & Remington Designs are very solid revolvers with their own faults & it is up to the shooter to accept those faults as they are & learn to shoot them accordingly.
 
I think this thread is going way off course.

I think it would likely work just fine for self defense. I wouldn't want it for hunting or 4-legged threats though.
 
In all fareness to both designs ..there is a weakness in the Remington design you never hear much about and might not notice unless you do alot of shooting ........this may or may not be a problem with the originals but in my testing all of the Itailian made Remingtons .
The poor hardness of the cylinder pin allows for gas cutting on the pin where the face of the cylinder meets the frame window .
I have had one cut completely into on one of my older Remingtons and had to replace the pin .
this pic is of one that has shot less than 500 rounds .
aw22ck.jpg


I admit I do shoot my Remingtons more than twice as much as I do my Colts ...but I have never noticed a problem with the Arbor being gas cut this bad .
 
shafter said:
I think this thread is going way off course.

I think it would likely work just fine for self defense. I wouldn't want it for hunting or 4-legged threats though.
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If it's the size of a Bear then you're right but a mountain lion or smaller animal that may become a threat while in the woods then they are perfectly suited for that defence as well.
 
Sundance44s:
He he, I've made it a normal occurence to replace my cylinder pins on my Remington copies about once every 1500 - 2000 rounds.
 
Raider have you ever tried to harden one of the cylinder pins before useing it .
This is something I mean to try ...but the price of the pins isn`t that expenicve and its been easyer to just to replace instead of addressing the problem with a fix .
Raider you are right one with my findings on the cylinder pin replacement on my Remingtons ...that is real life info ...facts ..
After all the Italian made guns are made of soft steel ...and we accept it .
I have never owned one of the Spanish made Remingtons ...but have heard they are made from harder steel .
Smokingun owns 2 of them and can probally answer this question for us .

Guys we could start a new thread on this subject and probally should ...
alot of us here do alot of shooting these cap & ballers and know when loaded right can be as dependable as a cartridge revolver ...so I chose this thread for this posting ...
If it were all I had ...I would have no problem defending myself with any of my Colts or Remington cap & ball revolvers .
The thing is ...if it is your choice ...shoot often ...learn the gun ...
 
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Anyone in here shoot Walker Revolvers?

I am looking at an Italian, color case hardened frame, new in the box, unfired, at one of half-dozen favorite gun shops for $325.00 out the door. Any input on the price?
 
Gator ...one question ...who made the gun you are looking at and is it the 1858 Remington model.
if it is the 1858 Remington.
If it is Uberti made that is a good price . Uberti made price for that one is around 350.00 most places .
If it is made my Pietta ..You can beat that price at Cabelas .
Cabelas does not sell the Uberti made 1858 Remington ...only the Pietta made .
The Pietta made is 319.00 at Cabelas
 
People also ask the question if a BP gun can be loaded indefintely. Of course it can. BP is stable, and as long as the chambers are sealed, nothing can deteriorate BP. After all, black powder is a type of biomass fuel, made of all organic, all "green" ingredients. Unlike smokeless, there are no chemical bonds that can break down over time. I have left my 1858s loaded for almost a year at max, and they worked fine.

Which reminds me, when I was living in Shanghai, there is a general purpose antibiotic called Cefradine which everybody uses for, from mild bronchial infections and ear infections to cholera. Cefradine is sold over the counter and has no expiration date on it. Ten year old packages which are sealed and protected from sunlight, water, etc... are just as effective as newer production
 
It is the walker colt revolver - the big boy of the BP/C&B

To answer your question -

I am looking at a .44 Walker Colt Revolver - color case hardened steel frame, new in the box, unfired, at 325.00. It is the Italian. Feels solid enough. Heavy sucker, lots of powder capacity in the cylinder.

ANOTHER QUESTION:

I was told by a Ranger that the Walker Revolver was actually designed to be carried in a holster that attached only to the saddle, (not the hip) and Rangers carried more than one Walker Revolver on the saddle. One Ranger battle tactic was to ride forward as a squad, firing revolvers rapidly as possible to decimate an objective. I am told that Some of the Rangers had as many as 4 Walker Revolvers attached to holsters on the saddle. Some Rangers favored shotguns over riflles in addition to the Walker revolvers.

Until repeating cartridge rifles were available in number, the Walker Revolver supplied some hard hitting rapid fire power. Ten rangers firing 12 shots of rapid 44. caliber fire at the same target probably do lots of damage. With 120 lead balls flying at them, the enemy either died immediatley or ran like hell from the scene.

THE QUESTION: Did Mr. Walker design that elongated cylinder in order to load TWO balls into each chamber, or did he do it to provide more BLACK POWDER behind a single ball or slug?
 
You know, I never thought of that.
Two balls in one cylinder. That would be a fantastic load in a close range gun battle.
How many grains of powder would fit under two balls in the Walker?
 
Sam Colt and Capt. Walker designed the WALKER to fire conical bullets as the primary load and round ball as a alternative load. The WALKER will hold approx. 55 - 60 grains of powder with either bullet. The WALKER was the most powerful handgun in the world till the introduction of the .45acp cartridge. The WALKER is probably the most interesting BP revolver you will ever fire. When you watch one being fired you get the impression that it is brutal to the shooter but it is not. The distintive sound, the muzzle flash and the smoke make it what it is, a hand cannon. The 4.5 lb. weight and the overall design reduce the recoil to .38 spl. level. Once you shoot one you will want one. There is not another handgun that compares to THE WALKER and you can take that from a 2 WALKER owner.
 
fineredmist said:
Sam Colt and Capt. Walker designed the WALKER to fire conical bullets as the primary load and round ball as a alternative load. The WALKER will hold approx. 55 - 60 grains of powder with either bullet. The WALKER was the most powerful handgun in the world till the introduction of the .45acp cartridge.
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The Walker revolver was the most powerful revolver till the .357 Magnum cartridge was developed & used in handguns not the .45ACP.

Walker is capable of upwords of 1200fps. 455 ft. lbs. with a ball.
.45 ACP is only 835 fps. 355 ft. lbs. with a standard military ball load.
 
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