.44 black powder for defense?

robhof

I keep my stainless ROA loaded in my gunroom when I'm at home and would feel well armed against any intruder. When the ammo shortage was peaking, it became my most used gun and I'm now quite proficient with it and with 2 spare cylinders, I was shooting 18 round groups betwen loadings.
 
Hmmm...
I picked up a spare online a while back. Fits perfectly.
Was told that Ruger won't fit a new cylinder to the ROA
without the old one sent in. Thought about "forgetting" the
cylinder at the range and sending the gun back for a refit.
Didn't seem exactly honest, though.​
 
Was told that Ruger won't fit a new cylinder to the ROA
without the old one sent in. Thought about "forgetting" the
cylinder at the range and sending the gun back for a refit.
Didn't seem exactly honest, though.
Click to expand...
You were told correctly - they won't. And they're expensive. You need not worry about sending in the gun with the cylinder installed; they'll send it back refurbished and the new cylinder fitted. Don't know why you'd send it in without the cylinder, but it's your choice.
 
Guess I missed making my own point.

I was told by a lady at Ruger that they would not install a spare cylinder in the ROA or send a replacement for a lost or damaged cylinder without sending in the gun. She said specifically that if a gun was received for cylinder replacement they would keep the old cylinder after fitting the new. That was why I connived to send in a cylinderless gun at the time -- about four years ago.

Liability issues were the reason I was given for this policy.
Bless all the lovely lawyers.

Obviously the policy was not in effect for your ROA.
​
 
Anyone shot in the shest with a black powder round is in a world of hurt!

Any attacker that gets blasted in the chest or belly with a black powder round, sure as hell isnt going to go too far. In fact, the attacker will probably be on his ass right where he was shot, praying for an ambulance to come rapidly.

A .44 caliber round ball with a cloud of burned black powder behind it is a horrendously terrible thing for anyone to run into! For close range work inside of a home or at a moderate distance outside, it will most probably be a one-stop-shot. Heavy, soft lead, slow moving, bone shattering, meat grinding impact is the trademark of the round ball.

The conical probably cuts and clips more than it smashes. But lets be honest; do you really think any attacker is going to know the difference if a conical or a round ball enters his chest or stomach? The conical will probably maintain more energy and velocity for an extended distance shot. It might even fly slightly straighter [but only to a slight degree] than the roundball.

Both the conical or the round ball will stop an attacker with a solid torso hit at short range. That is why for hundreds of years people have been throwing conical and roundball at their enemies out of black powder operated machinery; because it sure as hell works!

Cartridges facilitate rapid loading. You dont always need a cartridge gun to stop an attacker. Black powder guns work.

One question, will black powder store for long term inside of a revolver cylinder without damaging the inside of the cylinder?

Many pieces kept for defensive purposes probably have a tendency to be left in a desk drawer, or under a bed, or under a mattress, or in the glovebox or console of a car or truck for very long extended periods of time. Will the black powder store inside of the chamber for very long term without damaging the interior surfaces, flash hole, etc, and will a percussion cap sitting on top of a nipple for an extended period of time begin to corrode the nipple and flash hole?

Where we do get an advantage with a cartridge is that primer, flash hole, and powder are all stored in the cartridge case, which can be disposable, and they dont contact the interior surfaces of the weapon until they are detonated. The cartridge case - among other things - acts as a storage container and physical barrier between the propellant components and the interior surfacaes of the weapon.

Can we leave a black powder piece loaded for long time periods?
 
One question, will black powder store for long term inside of a revolver cylinder without damaging the inside of the cylinder?...Will the black powder store inside of the chamber for very long term without damaging the interior surfaces, flash hole, etc,
Click to expand...
Yes. The ingredients in black powder (which is technically a mixture) are all very stable and do not react with iron or steel. It will absorb moisture but retains it's characteristics without degrading if dried out.
and will a percussion cap sitting on top of a nipple for an extended period of time begin to corrode the nipple and flash hole?
Click to expand...
Depends on when the cap was made. Actually, any cap you can buy today will not corrode the nipple over the long term.
Where we do get an advantage with a cartridge is that primer, flash hole, and powder are all stored in the cartridge case, which can be disposable, and they dont contact the interior surfaces of the weapon until they are detonated. The cartridge case - among other things - acts as a storage container and physical barrier between the propellant components and the interior surfacaes of the weapon.
Click to expand...
There would be an advantage if any of those components reacted with the gun material, but they don't, so there's no advantage.
Can we leave a black powder piece loaded for long time periods?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. There are many anecdotes about Civil War era guns being found that were still able to fire their loads. The only reason not to leave your black powder gun loaded for an extended period is that you really have an obligation to be proficient with any weapon you intend to use, so you should, in fact, must, practice with it frequently. Loading it up and leaving it lay around is called negligence, not with respect to the gun, but with respect to one's shooting skills with that particular gun.
 
I keep my uberti 1858 remmy loaded all the time in my house for self dense. I usually shoot it every two or three weeks but have kept it loaded for 3 or 4 months at a time with no misfires. I have modern firearms in my home but this pistol is so dead on accurate that for me it seems like a fine weapon of choice to defend my home with. I like the fact you can order these fine weapons and have them shipped through the mail without going through any kind of background check.
 
cap & ball stopping power

Writer Ed Sanow prepared an article for Guns & Ammo a few years back in which he shot C & B revs into ballistic gelatin. The round ball was the distinct winner in the cavity test, the conical in penetration.

Sanow then compared the wound cavity's to modern smokeless calibers and loads. Very cool article. If there's an interest I'll try and dig it up if nobody else has it at their finger tips.

BTW , shocker....Wild Bill's .36 roundball was the equal of a hot .380 hollowpoint, if you believe gelatin. And the .44's were head and shoulders above the .36 by a wide margin. The big .44's, dragoons and Walkers with their hefty powder charges, were formidable, only recently superceded by modern magnums. (so says Sanow)
 
I agree with mykeal 100%.
Like I said earlier in this thread, I usually keep one of my C&B revolvers loaded not just as a HD weapon but because I tend to shoot mine a lot more than I do my modern firearms & I'll take one with me when I check traps or do some scouting on the club property.

Shoot as often as you can to be proficient with them.
Keep them clean, dry & loaded properly.
These C&B Revolvers can in fact be as reliable as a modern firearm.

I'd like to see that Article by Ed Sanow
 
c & B stopping power article

Here's the best I can do now on the article. I found it in the second magazine binder I looked in!

I initially advised Guns and Ammo but was mistaken. (hey, gimmie a break, its from 11 yrs ago)

It was HANDGUNs Feb 98 issue. I have the entire article but not sure how to post it.

Synopsis: the big .44 's yielded 85-87% one shot stops
the army .44's came in at 67
the Ruger at 79
a army sheriff at 59
All these were w/ roundballs and 30-60 grs of 3F

He goes on to equate the big 44's w/ 41 mag or hot 44 spl.
It's a thorough write up, based off the gelatin studies he and others were conductng at the time. There are also comparisons for .31's (30%, .22 lrhp)and .36's (.380 JHP, 59%)

I'm not sure how to take this any further on line. Kind of a dinosaur tech wise. I could photocopy and mail or something I guess .

I also have an article from the 1974Gun Digest, where Rick HACKER shot PPC type targets against the clock for a handling/speed evaluation w/ c & b's.
 
Actually you can't take it any further online. A magazine article is copyrighted, so you cannot reproduce it without permission. You CAN quote it with attribution, as you have correctly done, but to copy it as a facsimile and publish that copy you need written permission.
 
Gelatin has no bones, no cartilage, no fiberous tissue, and no nerves or organs.

Something to remember. When a bullet hits a bone, the character of the projectile and impact changes immediately. Gelatin is not much of a comparison for a human body.

Anyone hit center to high in the chest area with any .36 or .44 or larger ball, will most likely go down. Especially if the projectile collides with bone on the way in. The ball will flatten out and expand out and continue the journey on into the chest cavity, most probably with a wider diameter and pushing a bunch of bone splinters and fragments into the cavity.

Gelatin testing or not, we all KNOW that a chest hit with a slow moving big bore projectile spells instant critical condition for anyone on the receiving end. 300 feet per second is believed to be the minimum it will take to stop or kill with a chest hit at close range. 800 feet per second certainly stops or kills. Anything over that really, really, stops or kills. I wouldnt worry about gelatin testing. There is plenty of gun there to do the job.
 
Which is the stronger piece in terms of frame and barrel strength?

In an all steel, would it be the Army or the Navy series in the Colt cut?

Does Remington beat them all in terms of strength?
 
In an all steel, would it be the Army or the Navy series in the Colt cut?
Click to expand...

I'dsay both the '60 & '61 along with the '51 are the same in strength...jus' the Newer models are a hair more refined with a couple changes.

Does Remington beat them all in terms of strength?
Click to expand...

I say yes the Remington does exceed those Colts in strength, in my opinion...others findings may differ.
;)
 
With a nod of respect to the Remington 'mafia', I find no significant difference in strength between the 58 Remington and the 51 Navy/60 Army Colt designs. Colt's smaller torque box is more than compensated for by the massive top element (the arbor) as compared to the larger Remington box but smaller elements.

One has to go to the Ruger Old Army to find any real increase in strength in bp revolvers. The Starr and Rogers & Spencer designs mimic the Remington and do have slightly larger elements, so they could be argued to be stronger, and I have no doubt one could measure the difference. But all in all I don't think it's really significant.

BUT - why does it matter? All are plenty strong enough to do their jobs; any 'strength' beyond that is of academic interest only.
 
Which one is "stronger"? Depends on what ya mean by strength...

First, there's the catastrophic sense. Which one is most likely to blow up on firing. On first look the Remington design looks beefier. But the element most likely to let go from pressure is the cylinder. Either one is vulnerable in that category. They both have cylinders and, with the exception of the original Walkers, I haven't seen a preponderance of reports either way.

Second, there's the small parts breakage. A broken hammer spring trigger/bolt spring, cones, hand spring, hammer cam, sights, latches, etc., Any one will effectively put a revolver out of commission right now. Both designs are pretty much in parity here.

Third, how long does the gun take to "shoot loose"? Here, the Colt is the obvious loser. Remingtons don't have an arbor fixed into the back of the frame and wedge slots in the arbor and barrel. The Colt is somewhat adjustable against a moderate amount of wear, but ultimately it will need a gunsmith sooner than the Remington. The up side for the Colt is that a pocket full of parts may get a bit more mileage out of the Colt. A spare barrel, wedge and arbor key might get a cowpoke by for a while. But not forever.

Hey, Colt shooters: ever shoot yer barrel down range?
 
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