41 vs 44

Tamara said:
If you can't kill it with a .41 Magnum, you probably shouldn't be shooting a pistol at it in the first place.
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Hi Tamara! :)

For Cayoot - you can also opt to purchase a Marlin 1984FG lever action rifle chambered for the .41 Mag cartridge. This gives you a carryable rifle (even in showshoes) firing the same round as the handgun. It won't magically turn a handgun round into a rifle cartridge, but it can give you considerable reach!

Anyone know of a M58 for sale in California?
Please?
 
Thanks Bill and everyone

That carbine sounds handy enough, but when I'm messing with traps and such I would always wind up leaving it on shore or putting it down while my hands are busy (I already have to wear a back pack to carry my equipment so there isn't really any room for another shoulder carried item), and many times I need both hands to get through some of the thick stuff (tag alders and pines). For this reason, I know that I really need a handgun that I can keep in a holster.

Invssgt:
Thanks for the thoughts, but I think that I would like a shorter bbl than what is on my 57 (6 inch). Also, when it comes to dealing with wolf packs, just think of the last time you watched a full grown german shep run full speed across a field. A wolf on the chase could cross a football field in about 3-4 seconds. If a pack is causing a person trouble, that person won't have to worry about reloading quickly, heck he won't be able to get more than 2 or at the most 3 accurate shots off. He had better be able to turn the pack with one or two shots, any more time than that and he will be lunch :( .

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of the Blkhwk in 4 5/8 inch bbl. Handy and not so expensive that I will be heart broke if something happens to it (gets lost in an icy stream).

Thanks everyone!
 
41 vs. 44

Great line guys. With all the input from both sides of the question I think I'm convinced to have a crack at a 41 Mag.

:)
 
Being a big fan of the 44 mag for handgun hunting I have to say for deer, hogs, coyotes and such the 41 mag is a formidable tool, equal to if not more effective than a 44 because of the greater ballistic coefficient and the added accuracy that comes with less recoil and a flatter shooting round. Where the 44 carries a distinct advantage is the ability to load heavy bullets for bear or elk, that's about it...but on deer sized game some of the sharpest handgun hunters I've ever met swear by the 41.
 
This loading convinced me that the .41 mag will do!

I just bought a box of Federal hunting cartridges called "Core Cast". They are very hard cast 250 grn semi-wad cutters with a VERY WIDE meplate :D !

These babies are loaded so as to obtain (as stated on the cartridge box) 1250 fps from a 6 inch bbl.

250 grn hard cast at 1250 fps! :cool: That should do anything I need doing!

I know that it will be moving slower from the 4 5/8" bbl on this blkhwk I'm gonna order tomorrow, but I don't think it will loose more than about 75 fps, so that is still alot of lead speaking with alot of authority.

I can't envision anything (that would trouble a poor snow shoe wearing explorer/traper in the Frozen Northwoods) that could not be delt with effectively by a 250 grn hard cast bullet moving at 1150 to 1200 fps....can you?

Seriously, I would appreciate some input on this cartridge/handgun combo so as to give me food for thought before I lay down the $$$ for the 4 5/8" .41 mag Blackhawk tomorrow.
 
Just remember that short Ruger is a fairly light gun. Especially for the serious load you are talking about. Don't let that load be the very first one you try out of the new gun! You need a "training load" that will let you learn to shoot the gun right before you decide "that hurts" and you put it away!

Gregg
 
Loads that "Bite" on both ends

Really good point Gregg, thanks. My mod 57 is a real pussy cat to shoot. I think maybe I should order a set of pachmeyers to go with the Ruger.

I wonder if (after the snow shoeing season thaws away) I should send my little beast off to get magnaported (that is, if the recoil is as stout as I think it will be with these core cast rounds).

Has anyone had any experience with magnaporting with these shorter bbl magnums?
 
Cayoot,
Not in the .45 Colt. In the .45 Colt 230/255 gr. loads in the 1100 to 1200 fps range are just on the warm side.
Some of my .44mag loads in the 240 gr weight/1100 or so fps are in the same general catagory.

It's all in the powder selection.
 
Not in the .45 Colt. In the .45 Colt 230/255 gr. loads in the 1100 to 1200 fps range are just on the warm side.
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The .41 Magnum can get go up higher as well. But you are going to greatly increase the blast and recoil.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#41mag

265 grain LWN at 1350 fps

230 grain SWC at 1450 fps

Both would be a very serious handful out of the short Blackhawk. It's nice to know there are some commercial loads out there with top end potential but I would rather be shooting around 1000 fps! Load it like a .41 Special and you will enjoy it more.

Gregg
 
Get Both

I started the big bore game with a smith model 57. Now I have 2 .41's and 2 .44's. Since I reload, I can get the best performance. I wouldnt feel undergunned with either against 2 legged or 4 legged threats, but would of course prefer the .44 as game gets really large or dangerous (i.e. more gun is better here).

For self defense, both need to be downloaded somewhat IMHO. I like mid-range loads for this application, and use a 210 JSP at 1200fps for the .41 and a 200gr JHP at 1200 fps for the .44.
 
That's a pretty healthy plinking load, even comming from a 16 1/4 inch bbl!
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You can't compare a .41 magnum to a .45 colt or a .44 magnum in the same bullet class and expect the recoil / pressures to be the same. The loads that Hal described are standard or even under standard for these calibers. The standard .44 magnum load is a 240 grain at 1400 fps. There is no true modern standard for the .45 Colt, as most factory loads today are cowboy loads, the closest I could venture would be the Keith load of a 250 grain bullet at 1200fps. As far as recoil is compared.. you are truly talking a physical preference. What is too much for one person, is a plinking load for another.

Not in the .45 Colt. In the .45 Colt 230/255 gr. loads in the 1100 to 1200 fps range are just on the warm side.
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Alright.. I thought this was the 41 vs 44 forum.. :)

The .41 Magnum can get go up higher as well. But you are going to greatly increase the blast and recoil.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#41mag

265 grain LWN at 1350 fps /1072 ft. lbs.*

230 grain SWC at 1450 fps /1074 ft. lbs.*
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Now lets compare to .45 colt ammunition from Buffalobore....

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#45colt

325 gr. L.B.T.- L.F.N. (1325 fps / M.E. 1267 ft. lbs.)

300 gr. Speer J.F.N. (1325 fps / M.E. 1170 ft. lbs.)

*I have added the ft lbs from buffalobore's site to the original 41 magnum quote.

The highest bullet loading I know of for a .45 colt is a 360 grain WLN @ 1167fps. This is a Hodgden loading. I just had to post this to show that the .45 colt is not the anemic round that many believe it to be.
 
If theres one thing ive learned about this forum, its that ANY subject can turn into a pissing match REAL quick and can last for weeks! :rolleyes:
 
Cayoot... I have a .44 magnum in a super blackhawk 4 5/8" that is magnaported.. it has reduced that little mule quite a bit. I shoot very heavy loads in it, especially compared to the 250's you are talking about shooting. I would suggest that you get it done. As to those who do not like porting because of velocity loss, I have not really seen a big difference, especially in that barrel length, and I chrono my loads. I would also point out to you that federal does their ballistics testing with a 6.5 inch barrel, so your gun that is 1 7/8" shorter will definately lose some of those published ballistics.. you can expect another 20 to 30fps maybe in loss with the porting.. I believe in the end you will be happy with the gun, the load, and how it shoots.

Although in your shoes, I would prefer the .44 loaded with 355 grainers doing 1200fps... especially on bear. But then again, you could carry a rifle, which has been suggested.
 
I really like the .45 Colt, (I have two, a blackhawk 7 1/2" bbl and a 12" bbl for my T/C Contender) and I think that it is a great deer/black bear hunting round. But right now I really have a crush on the .41 mag. It is a new cartridge for me, and as long as I was considering getting a new gun to carry while snow-shoeing and trapping, I thought that maybe the .41 mag would be a good way to let me spend more time with my "new crush" while getting a new short bbl revolver like I wanted. ;)

I know that the .45 colt, loaded properly has more guts, but I'm not looking to carry the most gun I can get (otherwise I'd get a .454 casuall). I just want the gun that I carry to be "enough gun" to do the job. The fact that it can also be in one of my new favorites is really a cool bonus for me.
 
Hey 44mag,

Thanks for the input. I'm glad to hear how successful that the mag-na-porting was.

As far as carrying a small lever action, I don't really want to encumber my self with that. I have plenty of rifles (carbine and full length) but when I'm out exploring and trapping, I really don't like them on my shoulder or in my hands, they really get in the way and tend to get put down or left behind....both of those are bad habits.

I must admit, I have only fired the .44 mag in a 10 inch T/C Contender bbl. I was shocked at the recoil, it was almost as much as the .445 Super Mag bbl that I used to carry. Even worse, it was not much less than the 45/70 bbl I have (but with a whole lot less power!).

Thus I decided that the trade off in slower follow-up shots was not worth the small increase in power over the .41 mag.

Although, now that you bring up the point, I have never fired it in a conventional shaped revolver. I wonder if the recoil would be less in a small blackhawk like you have.

I was prevented from going to the shop and ordering the .41 mag yesterday (partly by work and partly by the indecision that still lurks in the back of my mind).:confused:

Have you ever fired a blackhawk in .41? I am starting to think that maybe (since I don't own a .44 mag but I do own dies for it) I should maybe consider getting that to carry, especially mag-na-ported.

Did you get the "C-More Sights" put on too? I was considering that since often I get back at dusk and the black partridge sights tend to get lost in the dark shadows of the woods in the evening.

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Do you have a pic of your handgun to post somewhere for me to drool over?
 
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Cayoot..

I would be happy to post a pic of my gun.. will be tomorrow though, as I am at work. I have nothing against the 41 actually.. I just enjoy harassing the 41 fans who tell me it is more powerful than the 44.. I have a freedom arms model 83 in 41 magnum, which is similar to my blackhawk. I shoot it quite often. It has a bisley type frame on it.. many believe this to be more comfortable to shoot than the colt style frames. In a 41, you should be fine shooting a blackhawk with a set of uncle mike's, pachmyer or hogue grips.

If you are going to shoot a 44, you have to ask yourself if you really want to stick with a single action. I have several guns in 44. I own a .44 Smith and Wesson Mountain gun, a 4 inch model 29 (Purchased before the mountain gun), a super blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel, as well as a 12" Taurus M44.

While I am sure there are those who will cough at my next suggestion.. think about this. I have just purchased a stainless steel taurus tracker in .45 colt. I have been loading it within the pressures listed by taurus and it handles the loads beautifully. Taurus now carries a .44 magnum tracker.

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=44 TRACKER&category=Revolver

Now let's talk about strenth... Taurus states that it is safe with a 240 grain bullet doing 1340fps, they also state it is safe with bullets within SAAMI pressure ranges.

http://www.taurususa.com/pdf/revolver_manual.pdf

SAAMI pressure for the .44 magnum is 39,000 CUP. The standard loading of a 240 grain in the 1300fps range floats from 36,000 CUP to 38,200 CUP in the hodgdon manual. If you follow the hodgdon manual, you will see there are a number of heavier loads that are in that pressure range. You will have to experiment with bullet length though, I understand the .44 magnum tracker to have a slightly shorter cylinder. I understand this is to keep people from loading extremely heavy bullets into it. But the fact that you are looking at 250's and such, you shouldn't have any issues. I personally love the tried and true Elmer Keith load of 17 grains of # 2400 with the 250 grain Keith bullet #429421, it hits 1,200fps out of my super blackhawk. I am currently eyeing the .44 tracker at my local shop and only money is holding me back. But not for long.

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/44remmag.php

If you enjoy reloading and already have the dies, the .44 has alot of potential. If you think you will want to load full power loads, get a super blackhawk, a redhawk, a freedom arms, or even a taurus raging bull in .44 magnum. If you don't need the extra heavy loads, but enjoy the .44 magnum, get a mountain gun or a tracker. The tracker is stainless steel, ported, and comfortable to shoot. I take the grips off mine and stick it in the dishwasher to clean it. Then lube it and away I go. It will definately stand up to the weather and abuse. Just some ideas..

P.S. As for sights, I have night type sights for my super blackhawk. They were made by Williams before their firesights came out.
 
These cals are so closely related, the animal you shoot with it could never tell the difference;) Use what you are comfortable with, and shoot well, thats the bottom line. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
 
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