.40S&W Why the haters?

Alright, tired of looking at this thread and not giving my 2 cents.

First off, .40 is a great cartridge. It works.

However, I would rather shoot 9mm or .45. (I do own and shoot both), and I have shot about a dozen different .40 handguns.

The way I see it, the power upgrade from 9mm to .40 is not significant enough to justify the increased recoil.

I would rather upgrade to .45 ACP and break the bank on stopping power over 9mm, and just handle the recoil.

I carry 9mm all the time, and I trust my ability to place the shots where they need to be. I also trust the good self defense load I have to get the job done. I also trust .45 to do the job better.

Just my 2 cents...
 
I will once again try to shine a light of reason on this subject by showing "real world" statistics. Earlier in this debate I posted links to real statistics... And, I will do so again.

One of the best and most cited studies done on the subject of "stopping power" was done by Evan Marshall of the Detroit Police Department back in the 1990's. His study was compiled from data across the country using "real-world" shooting incidents. His study only collected data met this criteria:
  • Single bullet (no multiple shots)
  • Torso hits only (no head or appendage shots)
  • A "stop" meant that the perp dropped within 10-feet of the shot (out of commission)

The data shows that even lowly mousegun cartridge like the .380 ACP has a decent percentage for "stopping power". The percentage might not be in the near 90% range of the mighty .40 S&W, but it is still much higher than most people on this forum would be willing to give it credit. Isn't it interesting that the lowly .380 ACP Hydra-Shok JHP or Cor-Bon JHP have a higher one shot stop percentage than the .45 ACP FMJ cartridges. Have we not all seen on these very forums that people would rather carry a FMJ .45 than any small caliber cartridge. The idea being that a .45 ACP bullet does not really need to expand to be more effective than other calibers.

http://www.neiassociates.org/caliber.htm

If we decipher the statistics provided by this study, we will see the following 1-shot stop percentages:
  • .380 ACP = 62.29%
  • .38 Special 2" barrel = 61.90%
  • .38 Special 4" barrel = 70.60%
  • .357 Magnum = 86.55%
  • 9mm = 82.44%
  • .40 S&W = 87.37%
  • .45 ACP = 82.50%

It looks like the .40 S&W wins to me.

I can't wait to hear how somebody's uncle's, ex-wife's, second-cousin's friend knew of a guy who walked away from a gun fight with a .40 S&W bullet lodged in his heart, and simply spit it out the next morning... Let the anecdotal retorts begin! (Sorry Mark Milton... Here is the definition of anecdotal: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anecdotal )
 
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1. "Haven't you heard yet that 40 S&W, unlike 45 from a 1911, bounces right off people?"

2. "And, of course, a 9mm actually HEALS people who are shot with it."

LOL :D

Rise up! Ye dead shot by 9mm pistols. Don't you know you aren't dead?
 
.40

O.K. I have a .40 and I think it's a darn good cartridge. I don't know about it being more lethal than a .45 or .357 mag. Maybe the percentages are better because the .40 being a newer cartridge it's far more likely that the shooter was using modern, more effective ammunition?
I also can't figure out haw a .380 can be better, or even as good as a .38.
 
O.K. I have a .40 and I think it's a darn good cartridge. I don't know about it being more lethal than a .45 or .357 mag. Maybe the percentages are better because the .40 being a newer cartridge it's far more likely that the shooter was using modern, more effective ammunition?
I also can't figure out haw a .380 can be better, or even as good as a .38.
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It can be hard to get around one's own preconceptions or misconceptions, especially when those preconceptions or misconceptions are so widespread and continually reinforced on public forums.
 
.40 S&W, well, there's plenty of brass.

I have to say, I never gave much thought to owning one, but so many people are shooting them and leaving piles of brass that's in really good shape, I may just get one for fun. As far a unpleasant recoil, more noise, etc. That's why I reload. :D
I don't understand anyone who is a fanboy of any caliber, they all have their merits, particularly if you reload. I always thought of different calibers and the latitude reloading gives you akin to the surface finish tables in the Machinery Handbook. There are lots of ways to get the same finish with different tools and depending on your finesse with those tools.
Does anyone see the parallel? Or am I just crazy?
 

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While 230 grain .45ACP has more recoil energy than most 180 grain .40 S&W calibered pistols of equal mass it only tells part of the story. It's HOW the energy is DISTRIBUTED. The .40 S&W has a more violent recoil characteristics (the rate of cartridge pressure rise rate) than .45 ACP. A .45 ACP-calibered handgun has more of a "PUSH" while the .40 S&W is perceived to be more "SNAPPY" in it's characteristics.

No "hater" here. I simply like what I like.

Besides, I like the machine called "firearm" not calibers, per se.
 
If we decipher the statistics provided by this study, we will see the following 1-shot stop percentages:It looks like the .40 S&W wins to me.
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Evan Marshall is the whipping boy for the ages on this, and has been discredited multiple times if you believe the other "experts." Good luck, but don't expect to get very far with that one. Not many are listening anymore.
 
While 230 grain .45ACP has more recoil energy than most 180 grain .40 S&W calibered pistols of equal mass it only tells part of the story. It's HOW the energy is DISTRIBUTED.
Click to expand...

And just how is this "distribution" accomplished (empirical ballistic evidence please; not subjective "touchy/feely", anecdotal sensory perception)?
 
40s&w, 9mm, 45ACP, they're all good self defence calibers. All these debates about caliber are informative, but ALL poplular SD rounds will do their job. 38spl has probably killed as many bad guys as all three. I used to kinda "hate on" the 40 till I shot a few, now I love them too.
 
Myself, I Don't Hate Calibers At All..

I've got handguns in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45ACP. All are acceptable as far as any recoil goes, if you have a proper grip on the firearm. I do love the .45ACP, as it was the first semi-auto handgun I ever shot. Limits on magazine capacity and weight of the firearm makes my decision on use as a carry arm. The .45ACP has a 8 round magazine, my Glock 22 has a 15 round one, my Springfield XD has a 16 round magazine.

As a veteran, I know the act of using a firearm in self defense is significantly different that punching holes in paper at a range. I prefer a firearm with more than 7 rounds in my hand if the need comes to pass. Will the .40 S&W make a bigger hole, and increase my chance of stopping the threat more than a .9mm will? Hell if I know, I alternate the guns according to climate, the XD conceals easier then the Glock.
 
I have a few 40's and a few 45's. I like both. I also have several 357's & 44 Magnums. I like them too. I have a couple of .380s laying around and several .38 Specials near by... I like them real well.

So why do I like all these different calibers? Because I own them...

40 haters probably don't own 40's. If they did, I bet they'd find a good use for their 40's. I have found a good use for every firearm I own...
 
I'm sure it is too late...and it really doesn't matter

What I get a kick out of is when people call the 40 "snappy".

My full power 357 mag rounds are "snappy".

My 41 and 44 mag rounds are "snappy".

My 45 ACP Flying ashtray round is "snappy".

My S&W Model 60 with 38 special +P loads is "snappy" and with full power self defense rounds it will silence the firing line.

So, since when did "SNAPPY" become an unusual occurrence that was detrimental to shooting.?

If we are talking about a self defense round - I really want some "snap".
 
I honestly cant tell too much difference between .40 and 9mm in terms of recoil. I don't think 45acp is very "snappy". But, my first handgun was a Ruger Blackhawk 44mag, so that may be why. My pistol grip Mossberg is a bit "snappy", but when shooting a glock22 and then various 9mm Glocks, and a few XD's, I can't tell much difference in recoil, there is a bit more and some more blast, but followups are good, for me.
 
Like many of you already stated- it is a compromise. Its not a winner. In presence of .45 I dont see myself buying a 40. If I want more cap then I buy 9mm and really get that high cap, and use hydrashocks....works very well againt hostiles. If I want more power then I would just buy a .45 in pistols or a .357 in revolver. 40 in no way a winner. Its always a compromise.
 
and use hydrashocks
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too bad those are the compromise, outdated and unreliable. Go ahead and load your .45 or 9mm in those, I'll stick to my .40 loaded with HST's, and when I'm out of those I have an unopened box of 180grain Ranger-T's waiting.
 
This is one of my favorite arguments.

"The recoil is too snappy"
"It's a compromise."
"It's not a 45."
"It's not a 9."

And my all time favorite:

"I don't like the sound of the blast."

All very amusing. Thanx for cranking it up again Bubba.
 
Compromise?

Everyone has an opinion. "Compromise" is anything between the .44 Mag and the .38 Spcl.

Here's some data. For self defense. These are some HOT rounds, with little recoil.

Caliber Type Brand Grains FPS FPE RANK

9mm TFSP RBCD 60 2,010 539 6
.38Spcl TFSP RBCD 60 1,705 385 8
.357Mag TFSP RBCD 60 1,975 520 7
.40S&W TFSP RBCD 77 2,100 754 5
10mm TFSP RBCD 77 2,420 1,015 2
.44Spec TFSP RBCD 110 2,030 1,007 3
.44Mag TFSP RBCD 110 2,430 1,445 1
.45ACP TFSP RBCD 90 2,036 828 4

Not too fond of the .38, but wouldn't want to be hit with it. Everything else is pretty solid, and the ballistics would suggest any hit with any of them would most likely result in a STOP. Which is what we'd be doing for self defense.

So I think it's more a matter of what gun you like, what gun you can afford, what gun "feels" good to you and what round you prefer. They're all going to be effective.

Personally, I carry a S&W M&P 340 loaded with .357 (5 rounds) but sometimes, when I am far from home, prefer the G27 .40 S&W with a few spare magazines.

But I'd be "comfortable" with any of them--even the .38.
 
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