40S&W…Have you seen the deals?

The 40’s one advantage has always been the size of the platform it could be chambered in.
Funny how that gets overlooked in discussions about 40 vs 10 vs 45.
Wasn’t this the same reason for the GAP being produced?
I had a 1006, it was heavy! Pull your britches right down if your belt wasn’t tight.
 
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Bottom line is that most people are more comfortable with the 9mm and tend to shoot it a little better.

Yes, a little less recoil is a little better. A lot less recoil is a lot better. This is true for almost all humans--and important for cops who really don't get a lot of practice time.

Advances in bullet construction have gradually made the 9mm far more competitive with the higher powered rounds.........and while more is always better--it seems that the experts have decided that the 9mm is sufficient.

Military veterans are familiar with the 9mm........the ammo is cheaper..........you can carry more ammo more easily.........

These are just a few of the reasons why the 9mm rules worldwide.
 
The Verminator said:
Bottom line is that most people are more comfortable with the 9mm and tend to shoot it a little better.

Yes, a little less recoil is a little better. A lot less recoil is a lot better. This is true for almost all humans--and important for cops who really don't get a lot of practice time.

Advances in bullet construction have gradually made the 9mm far more competitive with the higher powered rounds.........and while more is always better--it seems that the experts have decided that the 9mm is sufficient.

Military veterans are familiar with the 9mm........the ammo is cheaper..........you can carry more ammo more easily.........

These are just a few of the reasons why the 9mm rules worldwide.
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Especially those who can't do a push-up or pull-up.

And bean-counters like it, too.

But it's a reduced cartridge, and not as effective as the .40 S&W.

That's why the .40 S&W was developed in the first place.

Choose wisely.




Red
 
Originally posted by The Verminator
Advances in bullet construction have gradually made the 9mm far more competitive with the higher powered rounds.........and while more is always better--it seems that the experts have decided that the 9mm is sufficient.
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Therein lies the problem that I see with 9mm: it's more dependent on choices of gun and ammunition to get "sufficient" performance than bigger, more powerful calibers. The way is see it, "sufficient" performance in 9mm is dependent on three factors of which you need at least one and preferably two: a 4+" barrel, modern premium ammunition, and +P or +P+ ammunition. All of my 9mm pistols have 4" or longer barrels and I have no qualms about relying on them with my chosen ammunition like Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, or even the old Federal 9BPLE, but were I restricted to one of the new micro pistols and generic standard pressure Winchester White Box, Federal Hi-Shok, or UMC JHP's, I'd be a lot more comfortable with a bigger caliber.

While these modern bullets are usually easily available, that really shouldn't be counted on as just a few years ago we all went through a period where ammunition of any sort was scarce, much less hand-picked specific loadings. Also, this wasn't the first such ammo drought and, given the state of politics and world events, likely isn't going to be the last. While it's always a good idea to have a decent supply of your chosen ammunition on hand to get through "dry spells" when they occur, premium ammo is expensive and not everyone can afford to buy a case of HST's "just in case". For these reasons, I can see the logic in someone choosing something like .40 S&W or .45 ACP because it will still work "sufficiently" even with old-technology JHP's.
 
Webleymkv said:
Therein lies the problem that I see with 9mm: it's more dependent on choices of gun and ammunition to get "sufficient" performance than bigger, more powerful calibers. The way is see it, "sufficient" performance in 9mm is dependent on three factors of which you need at least one and preferably two: a 4+" barrel, modern premium ammunition, and +P or +P+ ammunition. All of my 9mm pistols have 4" or longer barrels and I have no qualms about relying on them with my chosen ammunition like Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, or even the old Federal 9BPLE, but were I restricted to one of the new micro pistols and generic standard pressure Winchester White Box, Federal Hi-Shok, or UMC JHP's, I'd be a lot more comfortable with a bigger caliber.

While these modern bullets are usually easily available, that really shouldn't be counted on as just a few years ago we all went through a period where ammunition of any sort was scarce, much less hand-picked specific loadings. Also, this wasn't the first such ammo drought and, given the state of politics and world events, likely isn't going to be the last. While it's always a good idea to have a decent supply of your chosen ammunition on hand to get through "dry spells" when they occur, premium ammo is expensive and not everyone can afford to buy a case of HST's "just in case". For these reasons, I can see the logic in someone choosing something like .40 S&W or .45 ACP because it will still work "sufficiently" even with old-technology JHP's.
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All true and I do love my .45 (even my old Model 625 Smith).

Maybe especially my old Model 625 Smith.
 
"Especially those who can't do a push-up or pull-up."

And there goes the crap flow again.

All you're doing is parroting a bunch of crap that's been parroted for the past 30 years. Apparently you believe that if you parrot it enough times it will somehow, magically, become true.

So I guess you either:

1. Leave it alone because it's repetitive, wrong, and groundless trivialization.

or

2. Provide PRIMARY source documentation PROVING that user groups (primary source documentation means documents created BY the said user groups) abandoned the .40 SPECIFICALLY because of user fitness issues.

I'll even help you with your choice.

Since documents supporting option 2 don't exist, and have never existed, your only logical choice is option 1.

Think about your choice, and your response, very carefully.
 
The Verminator said:
Wait, what???

The 9mm not as effective as the .40 S&W???

Yet the .40 is a failure and the 9mm is wildly successful.

Hard to figure your logic.
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That's because you feel popular equates to effectiveness.

But then, the .40 S&W, after being specifically designed and engineered to replace the abject failure 9mm, was the ubiquitous LEA and SD cartridge for Twenty-Five years.

... until the FBI chose to go back to the cheaper, easier for secretaries to shoot 9mm round.

So, to help you:

- Clown-Shows are popular.

- And when it comes to an SD cartridge, it's smart to pick the engineered winner.




Red
 
Red Devil
That's because you feel popular equates to effectiveness.
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Yet the effectiveness of the 9mm is close enough to .40 that it makes .40 less popular.

But then, the .40 S&W, after being specifically designed and engineered to replace the abject failure 9mm, was the ubiquitous LEA and SD cartridge for Twenty-Five years.
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Which is kinda pathetic.

And it WAS NOT "the standard" for twenty five years. The FBI did not begin issuing the .40S&W until 1997. Switching back to the 9mm in 2016.
Thats nineteen years with the FBI.

Even the wimpy girly man 9mm has been a standard longer. The US military adopting it in 1985.......thirty eight years ago.

T W I C E.......A S......L O N G !

If you want to convince others of the superiority of the .40........ya gotta do better.

CURRENTLY....no military or federal LE wants anything to do with the .40.....and those that still carry it are dumping them as fast as budgets allow. Same with .357Sig.




... until the FBI chose to go back to the cheaper, easier for secretaries to shoot 9mm round.
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Pffft. It ain't just the FBI my man, its Border Patrol, DEA, Secret Service and other federal LE.

So, to help you:

- Clown-Shows are popular.

- And when it comes to an SD cartridge, it's smart to pick the engineered winner.
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Keep telling youself this poppycock. It ain't the arrow, its the Indian.
 
The Verminator said:
LOL!

It's so NOT smart to pick a failed and abandoned cartridge.

"Engineered" wrong, obviously.
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Your Clown-show, brought to you by the FBI HR department and training budget accountants.

Enjoy.


Another thing that makes the .40 S&W shine, is that not only is it a more effective cartridge than the 9mm generally, but also that any ole hollow-point round seems to work just fine.

... unlike even the high-end 9mm fodder.


The "meat target" doesn't lie.




Red
 
Red Devil
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
Yet the effectiveness of the 9mm is close enough to .40 that it makes .40 less popular.
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Again, Clown-shows are popular, that 9mm one was brought to you by the FBI HR department and training budget accountants.
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No, the 9mm wasn't brought to anyone by the FBI. The FBI recognized it long before the .40 was in existence. You know that.


You are obviously having trouble with the simple facts, economics, engineering and physics of this topic sidebar.
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No sir. I'm not.

Government overrun ammo - $19/50 box.

40 S&W bonded 180 Winchester Overrun (Q4369)
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Wow....an eleven year old video?

Credibility ain't your thang.;)
 
Red Devil

Your Clown-show, brought to you by the FBI HR department and training budget accountants
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The only "Clown-show" is your arguments attempting to prove your point.
You couldn't post less factual information if you tried.
 
dogtown tom said:
The only "Clown-show" is your arguments attempting to prove your point.
You couldn't post less factual information if you tried.
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The real Clown-show is the insecure 9mm red-nose-and-floppy-shoe types coming into a .40 S&W thread on their unicycles, juggling their 9mm hype, fraud, and denial.

Fact: The FBI requested, and accepted, the .40 S&W as a replacement for the failure you are embracing known as the 9mm Luger... for Twenty-Five years.

Fact: The FBI, thanks to its HR department and Training Budget accounts, doubled back to the 9mm, as adequate, and then lead the parade for every other LEA that liked the idea of lower cost training and ammunition in exchange for the "FBI uses it" excuse for a less effective field performance cartridge.

And for the math-challenged? 1990-2015 is 25 years.


dogtown tom said:
Wow....an eleven year old video?

Credibility ain't your thang.;)
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Q4369 is in my .40 today, and shoots the same.

$19/50 box.

So ya know.




Red
 
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Red Devil said:
Your Clown-show, brought to you by the FBI HR department and training budget accountants.
Red
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See.......your stance is that "wildly successful" somehow means clown show makes no sense at all.

The .40 has failed and been dumped by most police agencies and the 9mm has taken over.

So your insistence on calling the 9mm a "clown show" is indeed hard to figure.
 
The “clown show “ at the FBI has been their involvement in politics for the past 8-9 years or so. If a ranking FBI person told me to buy option A, I would buy anything but option A. A lot of people have lost trust in them because of their upper management.
 
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