.38spl Wadcutter Hollow Point Bullet for Self Defence

Vaughn546 said:
My opinion is - no ammo manufacturer markets a wadcutter as a defensive round.
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If that is your actual opinion then for perhaps the first time in the history of the internet I can not only tell you your opinion is wrong, but I can prove it. This might just cause the interwebs to explode....

As was pointed out already on this thread:

Anti-Personnel .44 special. Marketed AS SUCH.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=282

Quote from their description of the cartridge:
This load is designed to permanently and quickly disable human threats.
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These other loads in .45 colt and .44 magnum respectively are also marketed as Anti-Personnel defensive rounds:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=269
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=283

Then there is this one in .38 special:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=111

This is not marked "Anti-Personnel" like the other full wadcutters, but it is discussed as being a defensive round.

All these rounds are hardcast and full power. Basically the two things everyone was saying a full wadcutter would need to be an effective defensive load.
 
I suppose this could be anti personel, I was just looking for a bigger thumper than my Kieth bullet

DSC00869-1.jpg
 
is the bufalo bore ammuntion real???

they claim ahollow cavity lead 38spl moves at about 900fps?? true??

would the lead hollow cavity bullet be a decent blend of expansion and penetration?? the soft lead deforms and roughens on impact with adequate velocity for game or defence??
 
Back in the day...when I was a youngster, I loaded a lot of 38 148 gr HBWC rounds. I heard about reversing them to make a giant hollow point, so I gave it a try. I never shot anything living with them, but I'll tell you, they will blow a VERY impressive crater in a bank of damp Virginia red clay, from a few feet away. I'm talking about 3" deep and as big around as the palm of my hand. The recovered bullet was about the size of a quarter.

I have no idea what the accuracy was like from more than a few feet, but it sure impressed me at the time. I figured it was good information to know in case I was ever attacked by a bank of red clay.
 
... Is the .38spl +P Wadcutter Hollow Points...
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About 30 years ago or so, there was some talk, practice of, etc., of hand loading hollow base wad cutters backwards as defensive loads. The idea was that the massive "hollow point" could not possibly not open up into the classic mushroom when striking an assailant. The practice and interest seemed to have faded away.

Edit: Whoops! I see someone just beat me to it.
 
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My 642 is loaded with jhbwc's, dunno what the velocity is, but I know what they do to rabbits out of that little barrel. That same load is the primary six in my 4" Python when I want to carry it on duty, but I carry sjhp's in the speedloaders for the ease of reloading. I think those jhbwc's are some nasty business! I have no problems carrying those and as long as I get hits, I trust they'll do what I've seen them do.
 
is the bufalo bore ammuntion real???

they claim ahollow cavity lead 38spl moves at about 900fps?? true??

would the lead hollow cavity bullet be a decent blend of expansion and penetration?? the soft lead deforms and roughens on impact with adequate velocity for game or defence??
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Buffalo Bore's numbers are real. I've seen a number of chrono tests by individuals that show this. While I haven't seen ballistic gel tests on that specific load from Buffalo Bore, I think it would expand and penetrate adequately for defense. The velocity and weight numbers are close to the "FBI Load" which remains an effective "old school" defensive round.

As far as use for game, I would think that depends on what type of game you're talking about.
 
These are my re-loads, Speer 148 gr. LHBWC (seated backwards) over 2.8 gr. BE in .38 Special brass.

HBWCseatedbackwards002.jpg


HBWCseatedbackwards001.jpg


A long time ago I had imagined that I'd use them for home defense. But, there are better factory made defense rounds available. So, I kept these only for photographic purposes.

Aloha, Mark
 
I sometimes carry wadcutter target ammo in both y 2" snubby and my 4" 686. Never a worry for me.
 
I have a .38spl full WC that I clocked at 800fps and I have a mag load that does 1100fps out of a 3" SP101.

I've also cast some pure lead loads for the .38. I'll test expantion soon. For the mag load I added a gas check. I expect them to act like soft points. Deep penetration with moderate expantion.

These are better than HP's because they can't clog or fragment.
 
I like rapid expansion semi jacked hollow points for defense, but hollow points need to reach certain velocities to expand well, which is why its rare to find Hollow point ammo that is not +P. If you have a snubbie that is not +P rated, or like me, just prefer to not have the heavier recoil in case of follow up shots, a hardcast DEWC or BBWC loaded to upper sub +P velocites makes sense. I use them in my snubbie. Also Speer used to make a soft lead semi wadcutter with a jacketed base so as not to lead your barrel, but I havent seen them in years. HB wadcutters and other soft lead bullets don't travel well through the barrel unless at extremely low velocities.
 
Good newer .38spl carry rounds....

In .38spl, Id suggest these highly rated factory loads; Speer Gold Dot 135gr JHP +P(R&D with the NYPD for J frame snubs), the Buffalo Bore all-copper low flash .38spl round, the MagSafe SWAT +P, the Glaser Safety Slug Silver, the DPX, the Hornady Critical Defense, the Winchester Ranger T/T Series, the 158 lead SWC-HP +P from Remington, Federal, Winchester or Buffalo Bore.
This is the "FBI load" aka; the "Chicago load". :cool:
The US Treasury special agents toted a 110gr +P .38spl in the K frame 19s & 66s. US Customs issued the S&W 686 .357magnum for several years before converting to pistols.

CF
 
I really don't care if one uses a SWCHP (like BB or Federal or Winchester), wadcutter, or DPX in a .38.

All three are real good! The SWCHP's worked for the FBI for years. The new DPX is pricey but works in many ways better due to expansion after penetration a lot of cloths. And the wadcutter, if done right, is the cheapest of the three but still works ok.

Now the reverse wadcutter is kind of limited in utility. The huge hollowpoint having walls so thin cannot be driven fast without the chance of the wadcutter's void flying apart. So either you have a sedate velsocity that compromises penetration or you drive it fast and worry about premature fragmenting of the slug.

Deaf
 
The SWCHP's worked for the FBI for years.
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The FBI fired them from 3" barrels.

Commercially loaded wadcutter ammo is the best choice for a 2" barrel as the hole it crushes in soft tissues is virtually the same diameter as the bullet, and it reliably achieves adequate penetration. It produces less recoil than +P ammo making it easier to shoot more accurately.
 
What you are referring is (+P) THE LEAD SEMI WADCUTTER HOLLOW POINT;

--not--

a semi-wadcutter

--nor--

a wadcutter.

Your SW Model 10 is well suited for what you ask.
It is also well suited for the other two bullet designs, as well.

The question is: "What can you handle in your hand?" The LSWCHP is a Plus P loading, which will be more bang, more snap, than a standard pressure semi-wadcutter or wadcutter.

You asked about the LSWCHP, and that it does not have to expand, to do what it is designed for.

That is incorrect. Any hollow point bullet is designed "to fail", i.e., mushroom back and expand, as compared to a full metal jacket round, that does not expand.

Enjoy and have fun.
 
The wad cutter (not semi-wad cutter) was designed (or so I'm told) to be more easily loaded into a revolver's cylinder (especially when using a speed loader) and to make nice, pretty, sharp, round holes on paper targets. They are used mainly as range ammo. That said, they are certainly lethal and can kill a man. They just wouldn't be anyone's first choice of self defense ammo. When the zombie apocalypse happens they will no the job.
 
Wadcutters damge tissue more than unexpanded hollowpoints or round-nosed bullets. Tissue is punched out and relocated by wadcutters while it is only separated by the other two; look at target papers to see. The tissue then closes back up after the bullets passes through. Wadcutters punch out an actual channel which bleeds much more freely. A .38 wadcutter will probably leave more of a clear channel than .45 hardball.

3.5 grs of W-231 and a 148 gr LHBWC makes for an affordable, accurate, reasonably powerful, and easy-shooting round, moving at about 850 FPS from a 4" barrel. 237 ft lbs is fine with me.
 
The wad cutter (not semi-wad cutter) was designed (or so I'm told) to be more easily loaded into a revolver's cylinder (especially when using a speed loader)...
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You were told wrong. The wad cutter is one of the worst designs when it comes to the ease of loading them into a revolver's chambers whether or not a speed loader is used. A wad cutter's only intended function is to cut clean holes in target paper.
 
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