.38spl Wadcutter Hollow Point Bullet for Self Defence

a hollow base wadcutter may not have the ability to travel fast due to the inherent issue of skirt seperation in the barrel, but a hardcast full wadcutter can be pushed harder, and if you spend a few extra cents per purchased bullet, you can still get hardcast copper plated full wadcutters that can technically go faster with less leading.
and i do BELIEVE i saw an article online mentioning a full jacketed wadcutter.


the british military got hollow points banned because large pieces of lead traveling 6-700 fps were putting huge holes in people.
 
Elmer Keith in one of his books had a one sentence discussion of reloading 38 spl hollow base wad cutters backwords for self defense.

One poster has discussed the accuracy issues all ready.

I recovered one bullet which had formed into a flat disk about 1 inch in diameter. The edge was razor sharp.

All energy had been expended and the target, a ferral dog that had been harrassing our livestock, had been dispatched.
 
I saw one report on here that said excellent expansion and very good penetration. ON hand gun ammo it is one or the other not both.
 
I saw one report on here that said excellent expansion and very good penetration. ON hand gun ammo it is one or the other not both.
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Have your cake and eat it to?

I'm on both sides, either penetration, or expansion.

I Have a S&W 37, I chose a 147g wadcutter for the first shot, and the rest 158g SJHP (standard pressure)
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To quote BNReal

The old round nose 38 special bullet has often been said to be one of the worst rounds ever designed for self defense.

I wonder if not only because the bullet was round but also because -that bullet was well lubed too- (being a soft lead bullet) that surface tension was minimized at the front of the bullet and it simply slid into flesh,tearing it and pushing a minimal channel through it which then closed behind it.

The end result is little bleeding and minimal awareness that one has been shot.

There was one police officer from many decades ago that was famous for his effectiveness in using that old round nose load.

I have'nt kept up with his name but this guy apparently hit the bad guys he aimed at-with deadly accuracy.

Just goes to show that when you do your part-even a round nose bullet can be effective



One of the worst gunshot woulds I have ever treated as a medic was from a RN .38 spcl. It hit the victim in the lower back, and ricoched up the spine lodging in the victims neck. She almost wound up a quadrapeligic.

I have also seen a couple of events of the round hitting insided othe chest cavity, and richeting off of a rib, and exiting the front of the abdomen. They leave bad wounds. Thogh I would not use them for SD I have better rounds more suited to the task. They tend to more reliably leave a consitint wound channel.

Ok enough said I am going to the range to shoot a bunch of full wad cutters, and semiwadcutters now. Gotta go have some fun on my week of vacation.
 
they may not travel fast or have alot of paper ballistics but just look at that weblink and study it. they do work, and well

still beat being on your knees and begging your friendly mugger not to kill you or trying to fend off a pack of drug addicts with an ink pen or pointy broom handle.

BUT on the bright side, they are what your normal fix sight 38 caliber revolver is designed for that special 148-158 grain bullet weight and velocity. what more can ya ask for?
 
Whether the wadcutter or round nose load,my Smith Model 10 and Taurus Ultralight 85 indeed love those old school lead rounds.

Great ego boosting rounds at the range.

Super easy to shoot well and to shoot a heck of alot too.

Thanks 10beers,on the no lube on the nose of the round nose.

Must just be the round profile not digging in at all.
 
50f.jpg


Pic of a LHBWC loaded backwards..iffy penetration maxim expansion ..

Had a old RG 6 shot 38 snub nosed revolver loaded with these when a stray (wild dog ) got a little to close snarling at me while i was checking on some springs at the farm...I'd say the dogote weighed at about 40 to 50 lbs. when shot with this load its head exploded like a pumpkin...plum messy
 
I have loaded commercial 148gr double ended hard cast wadcutters in 357 brass to full magnum velocities with a full charge of 2400 powder. It makes for the most devastating 357 handgun round I have seen. And yes, they work quite well in 38 brass too.
 
I have loaded commercial 148gr double ended hard cast wadcutters in 357 brass to full magnum velocities with a full charge of 2400 powder. It makes for the most devastating 357 handgun round I have seen. And yes, they work quite well in 38 brass too.
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Do you coat the bullets with Alox (in addition to the wax lube the bullet caster uses)? I want to try full-tilt wadcutter loads in my Marlin carbine, but that'll add another couple of hundred fps, and also they may run out of lube in the long barrel.

I shoot my own cast DEWC's at about 1200 fps from a revolver. I get a little leading with them but not bad.
 
I am not expert on ammo and don't reload. But I have read all the results of the 1987 wound ballastics semimar and to me the use of a wadcutter in a 38 special short barrel makes sense. The wadcutter will leave a larger pernament cavity and will be effective it shot placement is in the vitals. Here is the link on the report.
Regards.
Howard
http://www.thegunzone.com/quantico-wounding.html
 
it was a few years back a certain online gun magazine did a penetration test using 38 special snubnoses. 148 to 158 grain wadcutters and semi wadcuters and jacketed softpoints penetrated double the fbi penetration requirements every time. NORMAL average was 24to 36 inches.

also there is an older article online about a test done using early jacketed hollow points. in it the testers determined a mere 60 foot pounds of energy from the regular 158 grain lrn in a 38 special duty load for police was actually deposited in the target. if thats a normal percentage for that type of bullet, wadcutters arent so bad.
 
As a person that shoots a LOT of 38 special, I can attest to the fact that a wadcutter (not to be confused with a semi-wadcutter) cannot be loaded past 800fps (give or take 50fps), and the skirt of the bullet not get blown off.
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I also shoot tons of .38 SPL, all Speer 148 gr LHBWCs with 4 gr W-231 or HP38, which are identical. I got that load from Hodgdon themselves. They say that it goes 956 fps from their 7" standard test barrel and they have it listed on the reloading data part of their site. I know that the load doesn't go that fast from my 4" S&W K-frames and old Charter Arms Undercover but it feels pretty stout and does quite a number on wood. It's no puff target load for sure.

Most all .38 SPL rounds fly kinda slowly, borderline for reliable HP expansion. Round noses and unexpanded hollowpoints part tissue which our bodies immediately try to close up. Wadcutters punch a hole; the tissue is shoved back. It did the same for me in wood. The wood I shot, some new and still-wet treated lumber scraps, tended to close up behind round nosed bullets, so much so that one could hardly see the entry point. The wadcutters left a much larger hole showing. So, I'd rather get the guaranteed hole every time. Even though backwards loading of HBWCs would seem to get some great expansion, I don't think .38 SPL has the energy to penetrate sufficiently if the diameter were increased significantly.

PS Thousands and thousands of rounds and not once has a skirt fallen off.
 
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Do you coat the bullets with Alox (in addition to the wax lube the bullet caster uses)? I want to try full-tilt wadcutter loads in my Marlin carbine, but that'll add another couple of hundred fps, and also they may run out of lube in the long barrel.

I shoot my own cast DEWC's at about 1200 fps from a revolver. I get a little leading with them but not bad.
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Leading with cast bullets has less to do with lubrication than with how hard the bullets are cast. But, you know that if you are pushing cast bullets @ 1200 fps with little leading. The only way I could get any less leading or more velocity was to go with a gas check. (FWIW, I didn't have the materials or the means to increase or test the hardness of my cast bullets, I didn't even have a chronograph to check velocity)

The only reason that I know of to limit wad cutters to lower velocity was to reduce leading in the barrels. I never have driven the hollow based wad cutters past target loads anyway. When I was "testing" loads and jacking up the FPS I was using hard cast, double ended wad cutters. This is how I achieved best penetration during testing.

YMMV - I think reloading and bullet casting is one of the best ways to learn about real world performance of ammunition. I just wish I had more time to do it.

P.S.

After a bit of research in the reloading library downstairs, all of my reloading manuals warn against driving hollow base wad cutters over published loads. (of course). But, all they would say is "to avoid bullet deformation" or "poor performance". I hate not getting the "why" when they say stuff like that.

These get around the problem completely...

Plated wadcutter bullets (link to google search)
 
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Reading a whole lot of the responces, and expierenced feedbacks. The Semi-Wadcutter +P Hollow Point w/125 grain seems to be the .38 caliber of choice.
Mainly for it's supurb accuracy, and second the severe damage it does upon entry.
 
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