.38 load in .357 cases, thoughts?
- Thread starter Butzbach
- Start date
jetinteriorguy
New member
I just shove it in all the way then eject like any other case. But I like your idea, I may have to try this. I’d just use one of the handles from my RCBS primer pocket cleaning tools.
Usually you just insert the slightly flared sharpened .357 case all the way in. Then eject it, normally The length of the magnum brass will scrape the chamber where the .38 crud ring is.
You'll still have to brush and wipe the crud out the normal way, usually the scraper just breaks it loose, so you can get it out easily.
As noted, wait too long and you'll need something more than just finger pressure to do it.
And. 1936 is just a guess, since the .357 came out in 1935.
You'll still have to brush and wipe the crud out the normal way, usually the scraper just breaks it loose, so you can get it out easily.
As noted, wait too long and you'll need something more than just finger pressure to do it.
And. 1936 is just a guess, since the .357 came out in 1935.
Back when revolvers were still king of the matches, armorers would have special lead cleanout reamers to use in cylinders. Even shooting 38 Special in 38 Special chambers, wadcutters could eventually build up enough lead in the throats to impair accuracy. I that case, the lead was scraped from the throat rather than the case portion of the chamber. These reamers are still available.
I have many 357 magnum revolvers and all have seen a bunch of 38 special ammo.
When shooting .357 after a bunch of 38 special it can take a small effort to seat the .357 case. With normal cleaning after shooting there has never been a problem with hard crud rings in any of my guns. I always heard about it but never experienced it.
Regarding “a little more powder” it’s just what you have to do t regain the velocity you lose when going to a larger case. To define a little more, as long as it is within parameters stated for your components in a reloading manual your pretty safe.
I solved the whole problem years ago by cleaning and not worrying about it. I think you should not change anything and make sure you actually have a problem to solve.
When shooting .357 after a bunch of 38 special it can take a small effort to seat the .357 case. With normal cleaning after shooting there has never been a problem with hard crud rings in any of my guns. I always heard about it but never experienced it.
Regarding “a little more powder” it’s just what you have to do t regain the velocity you lose when going to a larger case. To define a little more, as long as it is within parameters stated for your components in a reloading manual your pretty safe.
I solved the whole problem years ago by cleaning and not worrying about it. I think you should not change anything and make sure you actually have a problem to solve.
Oh it’s a problem. As for cleaning I’ll quote Wil Smith in “Independence Day” to wit: “Don’t start nothin’ won’t be nothin’.”
I’m glad you have never experienced crud rings. Thanks for your thoughts on cleaning and on sticking to the reloading manual. You reinforced the point I was trying to make exactly with regard to the latter.
It's probably useful to understand the mechanism. With a shorter case, there is space around the bullet as it makes its way from that case to the throat. During that travel, gas is escaping around the bullet, and that blasts some lead off the bullet base and into the walls of the chamber, where it builds up into a constriction over a large enough number of rounds fired.
That means the mouth of the case is being forced into a tight space of built-up lead and carbon. That tight fit eliminates the space normally allow for the case mouth to expand into to release the bullet. When the mouth can't expand to release the bullet, pressure is increased, sometimes substantially. Shooting a cartridge that can't expand to release the bullet is risky from a safety standpoint.
That means the mouth of the case is being forced into a tight space of built-up lead and carbon. That tight fit eliminates the space normally allow for the case mouth to expand into to release the bullet. When the mouth can't expand to release the bullet, pressure is increased, sometimes substantially. Shooting a cartridge that can't expand to release the bullet is risky from a safety standpoint.
How big a risk is it, and how many guns have been documented to have been damaged by this?
If it was a serious risk, I imagine owners manuals and loading manuals would have warnings in bold type to advise people to never do this.
Has anyone seen this?
So you are challenging the notion that constrictions raise pressure or that raised pressure can damage guns because there isn't a specific warning about a specific form of constriction published in manuals? There are lots of ill-advised things you can do that aren't mentioned in manuals. A really common one is people "cleaning" lead out of a barrel by shooting jacketed bullets through it. That raises pressure too. Most people get away with doing it, but Allan Jones, who was in a position at CCI to hear about problems from a large customer base says never to do it, as he had seen a number of guns damaged by the practice (bulged barrels and stretched frames, IIRC). Out of ten thousand people following the practice, how many? I have no idea. But I don't see manuals bothering to mention that you shouldn't do this, either, even though they will tell you not to if you call and ask.
What the S&W revolver manual does mention is:
• Cleaning is essential to ensure the proper functioning of your firearm.
and,
• Remove excessive firing residue from the bore and chamber using a properly fitted brass brush dipped in gun cleaning solvent.
It also suggests that any time you notice a case is difficult to extract, you stop using that ammunition immediately and clean the bore and chambers before trying it again. I think these cover the basic situations possible here.
Ruger's manual says:
• Firing a revolver with oil, grease, or any other material even partially obstructing the bore may result in damage to the revolver and serious injury to the shooter and those nearby.
and,
• Improper Lubrication Destroys Guns
If they don't like oil in the way of a bullet, how much less would they want lead in the way of a jacketed bullet in either the chamber or the bore? If that seems too non-specific, call them and ask.
In his book, The Rule of Nobody, Philip K. Howard describes the most recent attempt by Medicare rules to cover every possible medical diagnosis (120,000 of them) included listing diagnoses acceptable for problems resulting from encounters with spacecraft. The gun companies are (thankfully) not massive bureaucracies trying to list every possible hazard contingency. A bit of common sense is required, and avoiding bore and chamber constrictions seems like a good example of that to me. A prudent generalization is to assume practices not OK'd in the manual are not a good idea unless proven otherwise. The reverse, assuming everything not warned against in the manual is automatically OK, is imprudent IMHO. The instructions are not comprehensive. When in doubt, call the maker.
What the S&W revolver manual does mention is:
• Cleaning is essential to ensure the proper functioning of your firearm.
and,
• Remove excessive firing residue from the bore and chamber using a properly fitted brass brush dipped in gun cleaning solvent.
It also suggests that any time you notice a case is difficult to extract, you stop using that ammunition immediately and clean the bore and chambers before trying it again. I think these cover the basic situations possible here.
Ruger's manual says:
• Firing a revolver with oil, grease, or any other material even partially obstructing the bore may result in damage to the revolver and serious injury to the shooter and those nearby.
and,
• Improper Lubrication Destroys Guns
If they don't like oil in the way of a bullet, how much less would they want lead in the way of a jacketed bullet in either the chamber or the bore? If that seems too non-specific, call them and ask.
In his book, The Rule of Nobody, Philip K. Howard describes the most recent attempt by Medicare rules to cover every possible medical diagnosis (120,000 of them) included listing diagnoses acceptable for problems resulting from encounters with spacecraft. The gun companies are (thankfully) not massive bureaucracies trying to list every possible hazard contingency. A bit of common sense is required, and avoiding bore and chamber constrictions seems like a good example of that to me. A prudent generalization is to assume practices not OK'd in the manual are not a good idea unless proven otherwise. The reverse, assuming everything not warned against in the manual is automatically OK, is imprudent IMHO. The instructions are not comprehensive. When in doubt, call the maker.
Seedy Character
New member
Any obstruction can / will raise pressure. The amount and type of obstruction will affect how much pressure is raised.
The lack of warning in manuals, does not mean the condition does not exist.
The point is; know a build up occurs and clean it.
.38 Spl is a low pressure round. Being fired in a .357 chamber, designed for the high pressure it develops. This gives you a large safety cushion, when dealing with crud build up.
Because of that build up, I quit using Spl brass in my Magnums.
I sold / traded it and only use mag brass. Just my preference.
The lack of warning in manuals, does not mean the condition does not exist.
The point is; know a build up occurs and clean it.
.38 Spl is a low pressure round. Being fired in a .357 chamber, designed for the high pressure it develops. This gives you a large safety cushion, when dealing with crud build up.
Because of that build up, I quit using Spl brass in my Magnums.
I sold / traded it and only use mag brass. Just my preference.
I like your thinkin'. At the most basic level, it doesn't belong there so I don't like it and I'd rather prevent it then clean it.
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