...not necessarily. that's like sayin' if you need a 124gr bullet, you need something bigger than a 9mm. Like the 180gr in .357 it is on the heavier side of the original design bullet weight, but neither is that rare. In both cases, there are legitimate reasons for their use in their specific calibers.
124 grain 9mm is the standard weight for 9mm and the 9mm is built for one purpose: combat. 180 grain .357 is quite rare, I can find dozens of factory loads in 125 grain and 158, but only a handful in 180.
And again, I've never read any publications where someone with lots of experience in self defense or self defense instruction has supported the use of 180 grain bullets in .357. Now, I'm not saying that if .357 is all you have and you can't afford a larger caliber that you may as well wave the white flag and say the Lord's prayer when the Grizzly comes charging, but I look at this from the perspective of someone having to choose between several options and if they live in big animal country, .357 is not the best choice.
Then..... I'm having a real hard time determining what your real intent here is. I consider humans as large dangerous animals. You keep telling us about the superiority of the 9mm over .357 in velocity with similar weight bullets, but when I go to my reloading manuals and look at real life numbers, I don't see it. In 124/125 gr we are talking about several hundred feet per second more velocity with .357mag max loads as compared to 9mm max loads. As much as 25% more velocity outta the .357.
Do those reloading manuals use a 2 inch barrel as the test barrel to get their velocity data? I've yet to see one reloading manual that uses a barrel less than 3 inches as the test barrel, .357 loses a lot of velocity going from a 3 inch barrel to a 2 inch barrel. Also, the manuals surely aren't using a 2 inch barrel for 9mm either.
My belief is 9mm is better in a snub than .357 for multiple reasons, among them being less recoil, less disorientating blast and muzzle flash, low ammo price means more time practice shooting.
Other than the Boutique ammo makers, I'm not seeing .357 velocities achieving 25% more velocity than max 9mm loads in a snub revolver. Lets factor in the Boutique .357 ammo in snub revolvers: the blast, muzzle flash, and recoil will all be much more intense than standard .357 Magnum. While there will be some .357 factory ammo that exceed 9mm velocities from a snub, it becomes a question of how much more velocity makes it worth choosing over a 9mm that you'll shoot more accurately faster? Buffalo Bore 180 grain hardcast is impressive, but it's not practical for me and many others in an LCR.
For woods carry, there are a multitude of options. I'd put a huge amount of monies on the bet, that the majority of woods carry revolvers in the lower 48, are .357 in caliber. Again, the majority of dangerous game encountered in the woods in the same lower 48, walk on two legs. In the majority of those same lower 48, a .357 would be all one needs. Heck, in many cases, a 9mm would be sufficient.
When we talk woods carry, there's two different camps: bear and hog territory and not bear and hog territory. IF you live in the former, I think .357 is the minimum caliber to carry and I'd advise people to consider larger calibers. For those who don't live in bear/hog areas, .357 is perfectly fine.
Again, you keep insisting you are trying to make a point, but you only want to believe your small accumulation of fact, or resist all other info in trying to make that point.
Boutique .357 ammo is very fast, it's noted, but I personally don't consider purchasing that ammo for the reasons of price. If it were the same price as standard .357 or 9mm, I would be more accepting of it. I don't feel for a snub revolver that's going to see use as a tool against human threats that .357 is absolutely necessary, not when 9mm is not far behind more premium .357 from the big manufacturers.
Again, this is all in relation to the LCR. I'm not talking about a 9mm/.357 Ruger Blackhawk with a 6 inch barrel. In that, it's not even a question .357 is more powerful, it's twice as powerful.
It's not a question of raw power, I made the thread to see what velocity data others were getting in the LCR in .357. The cheap stuff from Magtech and Armscor doesn't surprise me at all how slow it is, it's stuff like Remington, Federal, Speer, Winchester, and Hornady that I'd like to see data for in the LCR. If the best is 50 fps more with a 125 or 158 grain bullet, that's not enough for me to say it's worth the extra intensity of recoil and the like, but if it's 100 fps or more, then I start thinking.
