357 Ring Of Fire Update
- Thread starter Davelliott
- Start date
I wonder how many developers of the cartridges in the pic above had to listen to the same rhetoric from the naysayers.
He wants to develop his own cartridge. What's the big deal? It's his desire, time, energy and money and if it does turn out to be something someone wants, well more power to him.
If it doesn't then he can say he shoots a cartridge that he has designed\developed for his own needs.
How many of us can say (or do) that.
Go for it Dave
He wants to develop his own cartridge. What's the big deal? It's his desire, time, energy and money and if it does turn out to be something someone wants, well more power to him.
If it doesn't then he can say he shoots a cartridge that he has designed\developed for his own needs.
How many of us can say (or do) that.
Go for it Dave
I have no problem with that and more power to him (no pun intended). he's no different than any other reloaders who overcharge their loads.
Look at the video of him shooting the G29, that's a lot of recoil there. I carry a G29 loaded with Uw 10mm 200 XTP rated at 1250 fps and it doesn't recoil like that.
Look at the video of him shooting the G29, that's a lot of recoil there. I carry a G29 loaded with Uw 10mm 200 XTP rated at 1250 fps and it doesn't recoil like that.
1911_Hardball
New member
This is just a guess, but, probably no more than 99.9% of them.xcc_rider said:
I'd bet that there were people who saw no purpose for the wheel while it was in development.
This project makes substantially more sense to me than the .40 S&W ever did.
The rhetoric isn't coming from the naysayers here and for that matter most of the cartridges developed over the last 50 years, it has come from the developers who reinvent the wheel.
Bottom line 357 ring of fire = 9X23 Winchester ish case loaded with .357 diameter bullets to unknown pressure (probably near saami spec proof loads for 9X23).
As people have pointed out.
Guns will survive proof loads at least for a few rounds.
Original Ring of Foolishness thread is here:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566062
Mavracer summed it up best:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566062
Mavracer summed it up best:
You need to read the original thread for context.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566062
By the way, some of what you're calling "naysaying" is more of an attempt to correct misconceptions/errors by the OP and to insure that the OP isn't going to blow up his gun and fingers.
For example, the OP provides ballistics for a 200gr bullet loading while at the same time stating that the new cartridge is supposed to compete with .357Mag loadings from major manufacturers. The facts are that: 1. The 200gr loading he provides does not compete with .357Mag loadings in that bullet weight because they exceed his ballistics by up to 300fps. and 2. The only 200gr .357Mag loadings are not from major manufacturers, they are from the boutique ammo makers.
If you read the original thread, it rapidly becomes obvious that nearly all the reasons that the OP provides as rationale for the development of the cartridge were based on incorrect information.
Also, in the original thread the OP discusses using standard pressure signs to insure pressures are safe. Problem is that pressure signs in straight-wall pistol cartridges often do not show up before the gun blows.
Here's a comment from John Linebaugh.
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm
“Straight cases handle pressure differently than bottle-neck cartridges and often show no excessive pressure signs. We have blown a few guns up here, on purpose, and in all instances upon recovery of the cylinder fragments and case remains, the primer has shown normal pressure. Pressures in these instances have run from 70,000 to over 100,000 psi in our estimation. Do not depend on case pressure signs for danger signs in a sixgun. In most cases the first sign of high pressure you will have, other than excessive recoil and blast, is a bulged cylinder or cracked bolt notch.”
Jim Watson
New member
I daresay the developers of those cartridges were not using Youtube as their ballistics laboratory.
Davelliott
New member
All
Thanks guys,
As I've noted before, I'm disabled...arthritis is wreaking havoc ohms...so I'm trying to do this while I still can...
The recoil is exaggerated somewhat due to pain...but being a Marine, I'll fight through it best I can.
I thought the 40 is a good fit between the 9 and 45...but I'd like something that fits better between the 9 and 10mm...with higher capacity than the 10mm.
As far as recoil goes, I shot the 29 with factory 180 JHP also...and my cartridges don't feel any stiffer...but all that's based on the individual.
I do have a US Patent pending, but I do not have an international patent yet...and being a world wide web...I will not just throw it out there.
As far as pressures, if you don't have a program that accounts for bore differences, bullet differences and powder from lot to lot, you will have no idea to pressures...that's one reason all reloading manuals give you a max charge and a suggested minimum to start...it still comes down to you, the reloader, to take proper precautions.
Some videos you will never see are when the charges aren't enough to cycle the slide...the ones you do see are after I have worked up the charges to function properly.
Because of the barrel modification, velocities have increased without primers flow, or flattening...sometimes the brass doesn't even expand fully...
Those who have shot it range in age from 59 down to 10 years old...and all have been surprised and pleased with it.
Maybe one day, you'll get one, or find someone who has one and you'll see for yourself...afterall, the 9x23, 9x25 Dillon and every other cartridge on the market today was once a wildcat concept.
Oh, by the way, I did get 1385 fps with 147 JHP I tried for grins and giggles. Maybe I'll do it again later with more power...there's room for it...
Thanks guys,
As I've noted before, I'm disabled...arthritis is wreaking havoc ohms...so I'm trying to do this while I still can...
The recoil is exaggerated somewhat due to pain...but being a Marine, I'll fight through it best I can.
I thought the 40 is a good fit between the 9 and 45...but I'd like something that fits better between the 9 and 10mm...with higher capacity than the 10mm.
As far as recoil goes, I shot the 29 with factory 180 JHP also...and my cartridges don't feel any stiffer...but all that's based on the individual.
I do have a US Patent pending, but I do not have an international patent yet...and being a world wide web...I will not just throw it out there.
As far as pressures, if you don't have a program that accounts for bore differences, bullet differences and powder from lot to lot, you will have no idea to pressures...that's one reason all reloading manuals give you a max charge and a suggested minimum to start...it still comes down to you, the reloader, to take proper precautions.
Some videos you will never see are when the charges aren't enough to cycle the slide...the ones you do see are after I have worked up the charges to function properly.
Because of the barrel modification, velocities have increased without primers flow, or flattening...sometimes the brass doesn't even expand fully...
Those who have shot it range in age from 59 down to 10 years old...and all have been surprised and pleased with it.
Maybe one day, you'll get one, or find someone who has one and you'll see for yourself...afterall, the 9x23, 9x25 Dillon and every other cartridge on the market today was once a wildcat concept.
Oh, by the way, I did get 1385 fps with 147 JHP I tried for grins and giggles. Maybe I'll do it again later with more power...there's room for it...
The chart I posted was to show how many pistol cartridges are out there and that there can't be anything new.
I just found a complete list and there ain't gonna be anything new for sure. It surprised me at how many 355 to 357 calibers are out there.
Stop before you blow it up.
http://www.ballistics101.com/handgun_calibers_list.php
I just found a complete list and there ain't gonna be anything new for sure. It surprised me at how many 355 to 357 calibers are out there.
Stop before you blow it up.
http://www.ballistics101.com/handgun_calibers_list.php
Model12Win
Moderator
I'll be looking forward to the new Glock chambered in .357 ROF. 
NOT!
Just too many choices in 9mm/.357/.356/.355 to ever make this worthwhile and from the sound of it, you're no ballistician and you need to call it quits before your test gun does and explodes on you.
NOT!
Just too many choices in 9mm/.357/.356/.355 to ever make this worthwhile and from the sound of it, you're no ballistician and you need to call it quits before your test gun does and explodes on you.
Regardless of how good an idea it is I was interested in the last thread and in this one. I'll be interested to see the specs once the patent clears in particular!
"The same but better" is extremely appealing, but it's also why I think we all doubt this project. If it could just be better at no cost it seems like the original would just he better to me.
I hope you never kaboom Dave, work hard and work safe!
"The same but better" is extremely appealing, but it's also why I think we all doubt this project. If it could just be better at no cost it seems like the original would just he better to me.
I hope you never kaboom Dave, work hard and work safe!
Why all the haters? This group should be encouraging wildcat cartridge development, not discouraging it. I'm on the original thread too and I am fully aware of all the very legitimate and serious concerns that were raised about properly ensuring that the pressure of the cartridge is appropriately measured and that any risks taken are not reckless. That's a valuable service rendered by this group, to help the OP proceed in his efforts with better info and caution.
There's been no indication by the OP hasn't taken those criticisms to heart and that he had taken measures to minimize the pressure issues. And we should continue to warn and caution as he is kind enough to report to us on his progress. He has been polite and non-confrontational to all the doubters.
For those who think that this type of cartridge has been tried before, that's true. And those prior cartridges didn't catch on. Will this one be a commercial success? Unlikely but there is a slim possibility. When the iPad first came out I thought it was the stupidest idea I had ever seen. There were lots of satires about it being useless. (The Onion did a hilarious video) and tablet computers had been tried several times before and flopped every time. But we were all wrong and now most of us, including myself, have one. Entrepreneurship and experimentation are part of what made America great.
So IMHO we should be encouraging this project while at the same time helping to warn about the risks of experimentation and help the OP make plans within his means to mitigate those risks. We should also warn of the unlikeliness if success but still encourage his efforts. You never know what might catch on.
There's been no indication by the OP hasn't taken those criticisms to heart and that he had taken measures to minimize the pressure issues. And we should continue to warn and caution as he is kind enough to report to us on his progress. He has been polite and non-confrontational to all the doubters.
For those who think that this type of cartridge has been tried before, that's true. And those prior cartridges didn't catch on. Will this one be a commercial success? Unlikely but there is a slim possibility. When the iPad first came out I thought it was the stupidest idea I had ever seen. There were lots of satires about it being useless. (The Onion did a hilarious video) and tablet computers had been tried several times before and flopped every time. But we were all wrong and now most of us, including myself, have one. Entrepreneurship and experimentation are part of what made America great.
So IMHO we should be encouraging this project while at the same time helping to warn about the risks of experimentation and help the OP make plans within his means to mitigate those risks. We should also warn of the unlikeliness if success but still encourage his efforts. You never know what might catch on.
So discouraging some one from doing something stupid and keeping them from hurting themselves or others is hate? It would seem to me quite the opposite that encouraging Dave to keep on when he doesn't have a clue as to what kind of pressure he's operating at is pure hate.
He's made more than enough comments to show his ignorance as to pressure concerns.
There's been a lot of passive aggressive comments.
Look it's not really difficult to understand even without exact diminutions. We know OAL is short enough to work in a large frame Glock and we know it's not bottlenecked so it's pretty easy to guess as to a maximum case capacity there is to work with. Given that and a good knowledge of pressure associated with rounds of similar capacity it's not hard to extrapolate what kind of pressure it takes to do what OP is doing.
Ignoring that fact is well.... Ignorant
He didn't say that the project is stupid. His comment was about trying to discourage someone from doing something stupid, i.e. blowing up a gun and possibly causing injury.
Trying to come up with a new cartridge isn't a stupid project. But running hot loads without any established load data and without knowing what the pressure is definitely isn't wise.