.357 Magnum or bigger bore?

"Ever centert-shoot a jackrabbit at 20 feet with a 44mag using full power loads at 14-1500fps ? "

Yes, I agree, it certainly didn't just punch a hole in it.

I also shot a jackrabbit recently with a .357 110 grain HP at very close to 2000 fps. The rabbit was running straight away from me. If that wasn't hydrostatic shock, I am not sure what you call it.
 
I'm a huge fan of the .357, esp. if you're not a reloader.

What Cooper seems to have missed is that it's velocity that forces a JHP open reliably.

First thing, let's start with the gun. The GP100 is a damned fine revolver, esp. for the price. It's one of the smallest .357s that can handle a modest diet of the really slammin' hunting loads involving 158s doing 1,500fps, or 180s/200s at 1,300+.

I think 4" wheelguns often balance better, myself, and at that length CCW concealment in a good shoulder rig is perfectly practical. The 6" tubes will recoil even softer than the 4" and some like the balance better, it's all personal choice. You really need to rent a .357 in this heft class (Python, GP100, L-Frame) at the range, in 4" and 6"...most people seem to like the 6", I personally do well with less muzzle weight.

With something that size, similar to the Colt Python or L-Frame S&W in heft, shooting good .357 defensive fodder is quite comfortable. Some of the 110gr .357 JHPs, including the CorBon, are particularly nice. When you hear people complain about .357 recoil, most of the time they're talking about K-Frame S&Ws or similar, as with the guy with a model 66 (K-frame) below. K-Frames or mid-sized Tauruses or similar do hurt with full Magnums but the GP100 is a whole class above those.

With .357, you can also drop the power anywhere as desired below "full thunder". .38spl 148grain target wadcutters in a gun the size of the GP100 will feel like .22s going off. Mild .22s at that. There's .38 and .38+P defensive rounds that range from "decent" to "lots better than .45 hardball" that would be perfect SD loads for any beginner.

It's that enormous flexibility that's so appealing. The 357Sig is an attempt to recreate the effects of the better .357Mag 125grain loads. They didn't quite succeed, especially not if you compare .357Mag flung out of a 6" barrel.

If you do choose a smaller-frame .357 similar to an S&W K-size, that's fine, but as a beginner you'll run into recoil limits that you won't see in a larger frame until you hit the monster hunting loads. That's why people are pointing you at a GP100 or similar and as long as your personal hand size matches that gun, I would agree with that concept wholeheartedly.

There's an even bigger .357Mag frame size range out there, the S&W N-Frame or it's equivelents by Taurus. Ruger used to sell the Redhawk in .357, which is that class. By most accounts, that's overkill although the Taurus with 8 shots in that frame size at a decent price may have some appeal :). S&W does 8-shot N-frames too but they're custom shop, real pricey. The GP100 is a way better deal :).
 
Jim I absolutely agree!

Ladies and Gents:

I concur 100% with everything Mr. March stated in the above post. The .357 Magnum is a great, powerful, accurate round with tons of flexibility. It just does so many things so well!

As to the point of "is the .357 Magnum a minor bore or too light?" I respectfully have to disagree with Col. Jeff Cooper! .357 Magnum is not a minor bore and it ain't too light. O.k., it's too light to go hunting Kodiak with, but common sense has to be your guide at some point. The .357 Magnum is wonderful for deer-sized game at modest ranges, just load up with the correct bullets. The .357 Magnum is a very accurate round for use at the range (along with it's cousin .38 Special). And yes indeed, the .357 Magnum is spectacular in it's role for self-defense.

No, most people can't make lightening quick, tack-driving accurate, follow-up shots....*BUT* if your first round was well-aimed, why do you need a second shot??? I am not sure about anyone else, but I am not in the habit of picking fights with biker gangs.

Rest assured, the .357 Magnum is alive and well...and it ain't a minor bore!

Respectfully,
Mntneer357
 
Probieren geht's ueber studieren.

roughly translated, it means trying it is a heckuva lot better than reading about it. :cool:
 
SIZE=1]Beyond that, I don't *want* a rimfire handgun. I don't want a rimfire anything. I find them terribly boring.[/SIZE]

Well, that's about the silliest statement I've heard in a long time. :barf:

The .22 is the "entry" caliber for the large majority of shooters and is, by miles, the most used round. Shooting the .22 does increase your shooting skills and tons 'o fun! I've got all the big bore handguns and enjoy shooting them....but, I never leave a session without banging out lots of .22 rounds. Sounds like you just like to hear a big "bang" when you pull the trigger.........
 
sorry...

...but .22 Rimfire wasn't an "entry" for me. I must've fired about fifty rounds through a .22 my whole life. I learned to shoot in the Army on the M16. It IS a .22 I suppose, but has a little more oomph than that. My first handgun was a .45, and as I said, I did alright with it, given how little I got to practice.

I hate to defy what most shooters seem to consider traditon, or commit what some seem to call blasphemy, BUT...

I still am not going to spend my money on a .22. I don't want it and can't afford it. Those of you who say "they're not that expensive" perhaps can't remember college. Hell, right now I can't afford to renew my NRA membership. I don't HAVE $35 to spare, because tomorrow, I have to mail ALL of my money to my university. ALL OF IT. And I'm still in debt to the school to boot.

$200 is cheap for a good handgun, and is a deal. But $200 is a lot of money to a college student.
 
We understand Nightcrawler. But eventually, when you do have the extra money, you do need to get a .22 lr. We all have them. It is a requirement.

justinr1
 
what arizona fusillier said.the .357 mag needs no hype.jeff cooper is so full of himself he makes me sick.how anyone can read that zelot ill never understand.i mean whats his claim to fame?alls i know is he pushes (his) concept scout rifle ,which is good for many things but not the best at anything.1800 i can find a much better rifle or two.
if you read jeff coopers columbs, after awhile you will realize he has nothing new to say and repeats himself more than any broken record.he needs to play bingo with ronald regan at the old folks home.:barf: :barf:
 
Just a comment on cost.

Besides a used Model 10 or a Makarov, most used centerfires will be in at least the same price range as used Ruger .22lrs. .22lr is so cheap to shoot that you can shoot alot of it. You can get 500 rds for the less than the cost of a 12 pack of beer.

I understand not wanting a .22lr, but being too expensive doesn't seem to be too valid a reasoning to me unless just considering .22lr SW revolvers. In that case, they do seem "over priced."
 
I understand your dilema, nightcrawler, and I think the Ruger GP100 is the way to go.

For those of you who don't understand what nightcrawler is saying, it's this:
I have enough cash for one gun.
I want something with more umph than a .22lr.
 
Nightcrawler. For your situation

you have the situation well in hand.

I presume you don't reload. See if you can make friends with someone who does.

The .357 responds well to reloads. Like Jim March said, down to almost nothing and up to very, very serious.
.44 Special or Magnum has the same ability, but the revolvers are a bit more pricey.

Col Cooper thinks of the 357 as a "medium bore" because of it's bore diameter. Large calibers are 40 and over. The Colonel has a good deal of experience, but also has his predudices. This is one of them. Don't let it bother you.

Col Cooper served in Korea for a couple years. He did see combat.
Bill Jordan served in WWII and Korea, I believe. He also was a Border Patrol Agent for 20 some years. Jordan loved the 357 Magnum to his dying day.

It will serve.
 
Nightcrawler: look at the ammo costs and you'll see why people keep mentioning .22s. .22LR practice fodder goes for about $14 for 500. The cheapest .38Spl practice reloads you'll come across will run about $7 for 50 and that's a good deal unless you buy in major bulk at a gun show.

And .38Spl is generally the lowest-cost centerfire ammo you can buy.

The good news is, if you're on a budget and buy low-grade reload fodder for practice, the GP100 is so tough it won't notice if some fool double-charged a .38 reload (read: accidently stuck double the proper powder in). It's even got an excellent chance of surviving a double-charge .357 practice grade load.

Regarding Col. Cooper:

Some of us have a problem with blanket condemnations of the Colonel. Granted, he's a curmudgeon and will freely tell you so. He's also not up on a few of the latest technologies, such as JHP development since the 50's/60's when he did some of his best work. I'm purely a handgun guy so far so I'm not qualified to comment on the Scout one way or the other, although some certainly like it.

However.

If you've ever fired a handgun that felt "right" from a two-handed eye-level grip AND had decent sights, you can thank Col. Cooper. He was among the leaders of the movement towards two-handed eye-level controlled rapid fire. Before him and the "modern technique" he helped develop and advocate, fast fire meant point-firing from mid-chest level holds or lower (Bill Jordan advocated such, during his early advocacy of the first .357 K-Frames); aimed sighted fire was associated with slow "bulls-eye target work".

Go look at the factory grips on more or less any DA revolver, 60's or prior. Check out the huge gap between the back of the trigger guard and the grip frame. It was meant for controlled rapid fire from a LOW hold, just like the old SAAs. We've come SO far from those days it's almost funny.

His color code system has saved almost as many lives...probably mine included, as it helped me through a situation involving hammers, a knife (mine) and four homicidal transvestites :).

I don't mindlessly worship the ground he walks on, but I have the utmost respect for him personally, his history and his contributions. I also find his column entertaining and often insightful, although not perfect by any means.

I doubt I'm alone.

Jim
 
Ya, it was what I call a "Quentin Tarantino Moment"(tm).

Go do a search with my name as poster and either "hammers" or "transvestites" as the search term. Probably either General or Legal forums. "Hammers" is more likely to do it.

It worked out OK :).

Jim
 
I love the .357, have about half a dozen of them.

The .357 SIG was an attempt to catch the .357 125gr semi-jacketed hollow point that was consiedered to be the best man stopper on the books.

I think for a defense round nothing beats it. You may get more rounds but none will beat the .357. It may not matter in most cases but wih the best one shot stop record on the books I'll go with it. It has hundreds of real world test behind.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Nightcrawler, if you really believe your safety is in jeopardy,by all means buy a serius fightin gun,all I was trying to get across to you is that guns come ,guns go but the one gun any true pistolero will always own is a 22,I cut my handgun teeth on one at the tender age of 14,the gun was my dads a sweet little colt woodsman,the gun is now mine in a couple of years my boy will learn to shoot handguns using it ,I said learn to shoot not just spray lead around,usually whoever shoots the mostest, shoots the bestest,shoulda kept that 45 if your so poor and scared.
 
because

of the 1994 Brady Law which prevents anyone under the age of 21 years from purchasing a handgun from a federally licensed firearms dealer.

and I still have to pay my semester college bills. $4,500, abouts. Given that I have to shell out nine grand a year for school, need a new car, etc., I'm forced to limit my firearms purchases. No redundancy, for one. For instance, many people have multiple 1911 pistols. I'm not in a position where I could do such a thing.

I wouldn't mind having a nice .22 semiauto, but not in place of one in a service cartridge. Let me put it this way, if you could only have one handgun, would YOU get a .22?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top